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Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

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Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#131
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. Companies lobby to keep, even coerce, laws that benefit them and allow these sorts of things to happen. What is the common person, or collection of persons, supposed to do when they are against that kind of force? I believe one way is to actually be involved in politics and get into the seats that govern and make the laws. But it's easier said than done.

Honest question - can you give an example of a tax law that was lobbied for that benefited corporations? And I mean beyond just a decrease in tax rate which businesses would be expected to lobby for.

> Honest question - can you give an example of a tax law that was lobbied for that benefited corporations?

I don't know the answer so this is just speculation and five seconds of Googling (but I am writing this regardless because I hope someone knowledgeable will see this and correct me so I actually learn something)

My first stop was https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/corporatetax.asp

> Corporations are permitted to reduce taxable income by certain necessary and ordinary business expenditures. All current expenses required for the operation of the business are fully tax deductible. Investments and real estate purchased for the intent of generating income for the business are also deductible. A corporation can deduct employee salaries, health benefits, tuition reimbursement and bonuses. In addition, a corporation can reduce its taxable income by insurance premiums, travel expenses, bad debts, interest payments, sales taxes, fuel taxes and excise taxes. Tax preparation fees, legal services, bookkeeping and advertising costs are also used to reduce business income.

So here is my interpretation: Let us say for ease of math, I am Pupflix and I have 100 customers who pay $10 per month. I have an annual income of $100 * 10 * 12 = $12,000. Let us say I pay salary of $20 a month, so $12 * 20 = $240. I can deduct that. So my income is now $1200 - $240 = $960. Lets say my operating expenses are $10 a month. I can deduct that as well, so deduct $120 from $960, which leaves me with $840.

Now all this is relatively straight forward. From what I've learned from previous conversations, corporation tax is on profits, and not in revenue. Apparently, this is essential because some businesses are very low margin. Apparently, when all is said and done, a retail grocery store typically has under 5% profit (before any shenanigans).

However, what happens when our Pupflix pays Disney Corporation $1000 in licensing fees for the right to stream Disney content for the next ten years? Does our Pupflix deduct $1000 this year? That would be very wasteful because our income at this point is only $840.

I believe this is where Loss Carryforward comes in. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/losscarryforward.asp

> For example, if a company experiences negative net operating income (NOI) in year one, but positive NOI in subsequent years, it can reduce the amount of future profits it reports using a loss carryforward to report some or all of the loss from the first year in the subsequent years. This results in lower taxable income in positive NOI years, and reduces the amount the company owes the government in taxes. Imagine a company lost $5 million one year and earned $6 million the next. The loss from the first year can be carried forward and included in the current balance sheet for the second year, lowering the profits, and therefore the taxable income, for that year to $1 million.

I am not an accountant. My guess is that the accounting people will somehow run multiple possible execution paths and choose the "best" one. I think the tax field is very nuanced and just being able to classify an expense as either operating vs capital can make a difference in the amount of taxes a corporation has to pay:

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-differe...

For example, when I was a contractor my boss told me that I am a "cap ex" which is OK but for some reason he couldn't bring me on as full time because reasons. Not that this would change my work at all. I was working with the team just like any full-time employee would. I just wasn't their employee. How this makes sense, I have no idea. I doubt he lied to me. There are probably hundreds of things like this where you could argue an expense is one way or another depending on what suits a company the best at that time.

I welcome all corrections and additions to eliminate omissions and especially concrete examples that refurb asked for

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. Companies lobby to keep, even coerce, laws that benefit them and allow these sorts of things to happen. What is the common person, or collection of persons, supposed to do when they are against that kind of force? I believe one way is to actually be involved in politics and get into the seats that govern and make the laws. But it's easier said than done.

> What is the common person, or collection of persons, supposed to do when they are against that kind of force? Vote. All sorts of interests lobby, all the time. These include consumer-focused interest groups, as well as corporations. But, at the end of the day, politicians gain (and keep) office based on the votes of their constituents. These politicians are (generally) not going to vote on bills that they think mig…

Won’t matter. ‘They’ donate to both sides of the isle.

Lessig has a good video that breaks a lot of this process down. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#133

Rather than being outraged at the headline, what are the actual details? Why were they able to pay no taxes? Was it due to carried losses or something like that? Anyone mad at a company for not pay taxes is misdirecting their anger. Companies follow the law. If you don't like the law elect different politicians. Don't get mad at companies that follow the law.

Netflix hasn't, to my knowledge, even filed their 2018 annual yet (or their Q4 2018), so I'm not sure what they're even basing their numbers on. But they admit elsewhere that Netflix paid taxes most of the preceding years, averaging out around 13.5%. In the end their tax lawyers do exactly what tax lawyers do, and unless they're breaking the law so be it. As an aside, it's rich that it's always Americans complaining…

> In Canada every single competitor has to charge a sales tax of 13%

Just to clarify, there's no 13% sales tax - that'll be 5% federal and X% provincial (which ranges from 0-10%).

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is to outlaw lobbyists, it would fix a lot of problems. That, and enact term limits for Congress. That will fix even more.

Not siding one way or the other, that will definitely limit the amount of expertise that comes with a Congressman/Congresswoman. Think about it, it takes at least six months for us to learn our jobs, they have to learn about hundreds of things ongoing in the government before they can make informed decisions. You then even rely more on lobbyists (or "experts") who at least generally know what they are talking about.…

> that will definitely limit the amount of expertise that comes with a Congressman/Congresswoman.

The expertise they have is in glad-handing, personally enriching themselves, and playing political games. They're certainly not subject matter experts in anything outside that realm. Term limits don't have to mean that we're losing out on this valuable "expertise", it could be something as simple as "retire at 65", you know, like everyone else in every other industry aspires to do.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#135
post #47

Rather than being outraged at the headline, what are the actual details? Why were they able to pay no taxes? Was it due to carried losses or something like that? Anyone mad at a company for not pay taxes is misdirecting their anger. Companies follow the law. If you don't like the law elect different politicians. Don't get mad at companies that follow the law.

> Anyone mad at a company for not pay taxes is misdirecting their anger. Companies follow the law. If you don't like the law elect different politicians. Don't get mad at companies that follow the law. Agreed. Are they supposed to purposely waste their shareholders money to take a moral stance against tax avoidance? When it's something that any corporation can do, then they have no choice but to do it to stay competi…

Regulators don't care about stopping it, they only care about lining up their pockets. You have a corrupt agent and then you expect another corrupt agent to do you justice.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#136
Can someone explain to me why businesses pay any tax at all. It makes no sense to me that we want to restrict the flow of money through a business. Maybe we could tax cash holdings of a company, but why would you tax any income that ultimately goes to expansion, shareholders, employees?

People see these "tax evading" corporations as so evil, but why? Do they really even remotely understand what is going on? I suspect they don't. Or maybe I don't get it.

Edit: Maybe what I fail to realize is that income for a company is essentially what I'm thinking of as cash holdings, anything else would be an expense that would be deductible?

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is to outlaw lobbyists, it would fix a lot of problems. That, and enact term limits for Congress. That will fix even more.

Not siding one way or the other, that will definitely limit the amount of expertise that comes with a Congressman/Congresswoman. Think about it, it takes at least six months for us to learn our jobs, they have to learn about hundreds of things ongoing in the government before they can make informed decisions. You then even rely more on lobbyists (or "experts") who at least generally know what they are talking about.…

Lobbyist being experts is something I've never heard before. They are salesmen, do you want to get your nutrient information from a McDonald's commercial? It may save you time but isn't really helpful.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is to outlaw lobbyists, it would fix a lot of problems. That, and enact term limits for Congress. That will fix even more.

Or we could elect people who can't be bought by lobbyists because they have principles. I was taught in poli-sci classes that the single biggest issue wasn't so much the principles of law makers as it was their capabilities and their staff. Most law-makers are incapable of doing the (sometimes overwhelming amount of) work, and rely on hiring professionals to work as a team to review law and then tell the law-makers h…

> Or we could elect people who can't be bought by lobbyists because they have principles.

Yeah except they all say they can't be bought and paid for. And they probably believe it for a while. Decades in an environment where graft runs rampant will change a person though.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is to outlaw lobbyists, it would fix a lot of problems. That, and enact term limits for Congress. That will fix even more.

> That, and enact term limits for Congress. That will fix even more. Do you have a citation for this? Because term limits would mean that elected officials need to plan for what to do after they hit their limit. That could make them even more beholden to corporate lobbyists, who have the resources to offer termed-out lawmakers jobs or other benefits after they leave office.

We have term limits in my state.

One unintended consequence in my district is that we have two guys who trade seats back and forth between state senate and state house. They're totally interchangeable and neither one ever talks to their constituents (well, the ones who don't write big checks anyhow)

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#140

Rather than being outraged at the headline, what are the actual details? Why were they able to pay no taxes? Was it due to carried losses or something like that? Anyone mad at a company for not pay taxes is misdirecting their anger. Companies follow the law. If you don't like the law elect different politicians. Don't get mad at companies that follow the law.

>Companies follow the law. If you don't like the law elect different politicians. Don't get mad at companies that follow the law.

If a company is dumping waste into a lake and it is not against the law to do so, it is then wrong to get mad at the company? What if this is the behavior of all companies in the area? They all need to dump waste in the lake in order to remain competitive.

Is it wrong to become outraged at the companies for their behavior? They should not be held accountable?

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