The same article was commented by Bruce Scheiner on his blog. http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/01/adopting_the_i...
Very interesting comments, bottom line "Israel model does not scale well".
How Israel handles airport security
111–120 of 168 posts
Re: How Israel handles airport security
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
The TSA system is a production line - hire cheap unskilled labor, and train around a process and manuals. This is the big thing that popped out at me from reading the article. The personnel described sound highly experienced and trained. I wonder how long and how much it would cost to bring your standard TSA screener up to that level.
It sounds from the article that the Israeli airport security personal are all ex-IDF. It's a job they naturally matriculate into after serving their required 2yrs in the IDF. I am not an expert, but I imagine that given the primary mission of the IDF in dealing with Palestine, they probably receive training and some experience (depending on where they are assigned) in how to spot potential terrorists using behavioral…
3 years for men, 2 years for women. And such security jobs are more easily gained by people who served a bit longer (i.e. signed up for another year or two of paid service, after the compulsory one ended)
Re: How Israel handles airport security
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Israel values its security, and pays for it. According to an analysis by Bloomberg News, Israel spends around 10 times more per passenger than the United States does." I'll bet those numbers change if you include the cost of a pair of world trade center towers and the associated expenses of that incident. "Cheap and ineffective" != "inexpensive"
More comprehensive pre-flight screening could not have stopped the Sept. 11 attacks, because they did not involve sneaking contraband onto the plane. The cardboard box cutters that were used in the attack were allowed at the time.
That's why, apart from pre-flight screening, they have a policy of having plainclothes air marshals on every flight and locking the cabin door.
Re: How Israel handles airport security
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds from the article that the Israeli airport security personal are all ex-IDF. It's a job they naturally matriculate into after serving their required 2yrs in the IDF. I am not an expert, but I imagine that given the primary mission of the IDF in dealing with Palestine, they probably receive training and some experience (depending on where they are assigned) in how to spot potential terrorists using behavioral…
>It sounds from the article that the Israeli airport security personal are all ex-IDF. Every Israeli adult is ex-IDF, except for those adults who are still in the IDF.
"Every Israeli adult is ex-IDF"
I wish it were true, but it's not. Many people are exempt from service on racial, religious or just ideological reasons. Mind you, it's not always easy to be exempt, but some sectors of the population have an automatic "pass".
Re: How Israel handles airport security
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
The TSA system is a production line - hire cheap unskilled labor, and train around a process and manuals. This is the big thing that popped out at me from reading the article. The personnel described sound highly experienced and trained. I wonder how long and how much it would cost to bring your standard TSA screener up to that level.
It sounds from the article that the Israeli airport security personal are all ex-IDF. It's a job they naturally matriculate into after serving their required 2yrs in the IDF. I am not an expert, but I imagine that given the primary mission of the IDF in dealing with Palestine, they probably receive training and some experience (depending on where they are assigned) in how to spot potential terrorists using behavioral…
With all the bloody mishaps and atrocities considered, your military is still better at winning hearts and minds than about anyone. Overall record for armies of the world in treating civilians is pretty abysmal, and IDF does not particularly shine there either.
Re: How Israel handles airport security
#116Doesn't Israel also destroy the homes of any bomber's family? (seriously, google it) That is more likely the deterrent. So should the USA do that too for all our domestic terrorists?
Nah, you just invade their country.
[Joking, to point out how stupid such generalizations can be]
Re: How Israel handles airport security
#117Flew there with my girl friend. We were very happy to be there 2 days only after sudden invitation to see a prospect. So when we handed our passports to the interviewer to get the Israel (Holy land!) visa Stamp, we were laughing of sheer joy to be there. Interviewer glared at us and asked abruptly: "what makes you laugh?!"
Re: How Israel handles airport security
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
What situation? The one where everyone flies safely? You might get a bit more attention as an Israeli Arab, or as a foreign national, but the profiling is mostly behavioural. They might have a look through your things, but then again they they gave my dad's luggage a load of attention on a recent trip and he's an air force veteran. It's also more or less impossible to distinguish (visually) Israeli Arabs and Sephardi…
BS. Rebuttal follows. The screeners have no problem distinguishing Israeli Arabs and Sephardic Jews. 30 seconds of conversation -- if not simpler cues such as clothing -- will resolve any ambiguity. Israeli Arabs might not always be hassled, but they are certainly lined up for "increased scrutiny" more often. A lot more often. I have enough friends who can attest to this experience. I cannot count the number of times…
Isn't that how it is supposed to be, though?
I mean, apply some bayesian reasoning about the probability of someone being a terrorist _given that_ he looks like an Arab and/or is Muslim — and you won't be surprised some people are screened more thoroughly. Had the world evolved differently, they might be paying increased attention to white males with freckles and red hair.
The US for some reason likes to pretend that everyone is a terrorist with equal probability and avoids "racial profiling". This is kind of like sticking fingers in your ears and shouting loudly "can't hear you!".
Re: How Israel handles airport security
#119"This is to see that you don't have heavy metals on you or something that looks suspicious," said Sela. Sorry but what do heavy metals have to do with airport security? is this just typo or have I completely lost my understanding of basic explosives chemistry and other terror related topics?
I don't think you have a real understanding of terror related topics as it applies to Israel. In an area of the world where getting ak47's is easy as heck - you can go a few countries away from Israel and buy them at open air markets - it makes a lot of sense to make sure no one is carrying guns and other weapons made with heavy metals into your airport. The security is made of layers - just because they are checking…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_(chemistry)
I've always though that heavy metals mean stuff like uranium and lead...
Re: How Israel handles airport security
#120I cannot believe people bring up Israeli airport security as an example of a system the U.S. should model. The security agents are neither intelligent, nor well trained, nor polite. The entire system is based on racism and I would take TSA security over the Israeli model any day. People were complaining here about a pat down search in public by a TSA agent equaling sexual harassment. I was actually taken to a public…
You are just one data point.