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If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

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Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#261

Post by logfromblammo »

m0zg wrote: post #171
logfromblammo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might work: x = gross_income / median_income; if( x Math.ln() is the log function for base e, and Math.li() is the logarithmic integral function. The constants are based on the income at 50 times the median income having a marginal tax rate of 50%, and the median income having a marginal tax rate of 0%. Marginal tax rates above 50% asymptotically approach 100%. There are no loopholes or exemptions. If the median…

There's one fly in this socialist ointment: all the rich people will immediately bail, and go live elsewhere.

Ah. Well, that's fine. They can go somewhere else and renounce citizenship, then huff and puff when they start having difficulties getting the money out of the businesses and property they left behind, and getting the knobbly, nail-studded end of the mercantilists' stick.

Your argument rests on the presumption that the economy needs super-rich people to be performant, when corporations and governments have already solved the problem of collaborative concentration of capital. If they leave, and the economy somehow fails to collapse, they have shown the lie behind rich folks as "job creators".

Economies are run by the people who do the work. Sitting on ass and writing checks serves to weed out some of the worst ideas, and shuffling financial instruments serves to lubricate the gears of the economic machine, but should the rich ever go on strike, they will immediately lose all their leverage as the economy restructures itself to work without them. At worst, they can just get replaced by newly-minted rich people.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#262

Post by AndrewKemendo »

dwheeler wrote: post #256
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm joining the Air Force as a Civilian with the explicit purpose of solving this. In fact we've made a lot of progress with Continuous ATO and some other efforts to get faster iteration, deployment, sharing CI/CD etc... processes in place. It's going to take time but we're on the right track. Send me a message if you want to be involved in this culture change.

Please join the mil-oss mailing list. I think you'll be glad you did.

Is the one you're referencing the google groups bbs group one? [1] Doesn't seem particularly active.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/mil-oss

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#263

Post by logfromblammo »

Zanni wrote: post #181
logfromblammo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might work: x = gross_income / median_income; if( x Math.ln() is the log function for base e, and Math.li() is the logarithmic integral function. The constants are based on the income at 50 times the median income having a marginal tax rate of 50%, and the median income having a marginal tax rate of 0%. Marginal tax rates above 50% asymptotically approach 100%. There are no loopholes or exemptions. If the median…

You're solving the wrong problem. Calculating tax owed is the easy part. Figuring out your income is the challenge: tracking all your business expenses, depreciation, credits, exemptions, etc.

Deduct the labor cost of salary and wages only, and the distributions to the owners. Those are someone else's income. If it isn't someone else's income, for them to pay tax on, you pay tax on it. No loopholes or exemptions, period. The only way for a dollar to not be your income is if you gave it to someone else, to be their income.

If you add up all the incomes of all the tax-paying entities, it should equal the money supply multiplied by the velocity, minus the unreported income economy.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#265

Post by tracker1 »

uberman wrote: post #137
tracker1 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users who don't contribute back, aren't removing what you have done, or a given government may have funded. Some governments ARE contributing to open-source... other governments using open-source doesn't undo or degrade things. We are not in a communist/socialist world where every community must pay at the point of a gun for things they don't choose to pay for. And if some government wants to force users of software…

I am baffled by your post. "We are not in a communist/socialist world" This is EXACTLY my point. We are (at least I am) not. My government does not owe me or anyone else (let alone a foreign government) open source access to it's IP. To think otherwise (as you appear to do) is to be the socialist. I hate to break it to you, but open source IP is socialism. I hope that does not come as some sort of shock to you. Again…

I was using an analogy to express a point that because one organization chooses to fund opensource, the fact that another doesn't isn't expressly taking away anything.

That aside, I do feel most of what is publicly funded via tax dollars taken by threat of force should be open. This includes data and software (other than expressly licensed, commercial off the shelf software). I'm not as hardline as some on this, but I do feel that way.

The Communist POV would be that all software, data and access be restricted and expressly owned by the government and not really the people.

Open-Source is socialism if the government is forcing people to pay for it... so long as its' a collective voluntary thing not enforced by the government it is in fact not communism/socialism but a part of marginalizing that software which is not a core business component.

The point I was making is the government shouldn't be choosing for me... however, given that the government does fund software development for its' own needs, that development should probably be open.

For the CnC example, I've stated in other threads that I don't feel commercial software should be required to be opened if it exists and is licensed via govt contract vs. developed for.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#266

Post by anth_anm »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #231
anth_anm wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't care about what the government does, subject to the bounds of "don't touch my money". The ones who do care more than that tend to be absolutely awful.

Like Tesla? Or Patagonia, or REI, or allbirds, or bullfrog power, or seventh generation?

Like Mercer, who buys up local news outlets to push his propaganda.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#267

Post by m0zg »

logfromblammo wrote: post #261
m0zg wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's one fly in this socialist ointment: all the rich people will immediately bail, and go live elsewhere.

Ah. Well, that's fine. They can go somewhere else and renounce citizenship, then huff and puff when they start having difficulties getting the money out of the businesses and property they left behind, and getting the knobbly, nail-studded end of the mercantilists' stick. Your argument rests on the presumption that the economy needs super-rich people to be performant, when corporations and governments have already so…

That's how you get Venezuela though. Good luck with that.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#268

Post by efreak »

dragonwriter wrote: post #88
tombert wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't FOIA mandate that it's released if it's not confidential? I'm seriously asking; I'm not an expert in these things.

> Wouldn't FOIA mandate that it's released? FOIA has a number of things exceptions, material subject to it's exceptions is not required to be released, including: ---[quote]--- Exemption 1 : Information that is classified to protect national security. Exemption 2 : Information related solely to the internal personnel rules and practices of an agency. Exemption 3 : Information that is prohibited from disclosure by ano…

> Exemption 9: Geological information on wells.

That one at the end seems interesting. I wonder how that got added in there as such a specific item and not as part of a broader category of sensitive information...I would think if wells were sensitive information, then so would mineral deposits and other natural resources, possibly falling under either exemption 3 or 4:

> Exemption 3: Information that is prohibited from disclosure by another federal law.

> Exemption 4: Trade secrets or commercial or financial information that is confidential or privileged.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#269

Post by logfromblammo »

m0zg wrote: post #267
logfromblammo wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah. Well, that's fine. They can go somewhere else and renounce citizenship, then huff and puff when they start having difficulties getting the money out of the businesses and property they left behind, and getting the knobbly, nail-studded end of the mercantilists' stick. Your argument rests on the presumption that the economy needs super-rich people to be performant, when corporations and governments have already so…

That's how you get Venezuela though. Good luck with that.

You get Venezuela with bad government. And they bought theirs with state-owned (nationalized in 1976) petroleum money, not with progressive income taxes. Progressive taxation is how you get Europe. Occasionally, someone like Gerard Depardieu flees the top tax rate in France, the world's top taxer, but it still manages to be a G7 economy, somehow.

And, contrariwise, when a nation coddles its billionaires, and lets them do whatever they want, that's how you get the current US government. Nobody's starving, though. Not yet. We still might check that off with another government shutdown and another trade war escalation and another diplomatic insult or provocation.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#270

Post by m0zg »

logfromblammo wrote: post #269
m0zg wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how you get Venezuela though. Good luck with that.

You get Venezuela with bad government. And they bought theirs with state-owned (nationalized in 1976) petroleum money, not with progressive income taxes. Progressive taxation is how you get Europe. Occasionally, someone like Gerard Depardieu flees the top tax rate in France, the world's top taxer, but it still manages to be a G7 economy, somehow. And, contrariwise, when a nation coddles its billionaires, and lets the…

You get Venezuela by committing to give people somebody else's money rather than create the environment in which they can make their own.
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