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Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

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Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#161

Post by woodpanel »

CodeCube wrote: post #108
bluecalm wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surely doable in big organizations but small businesses it's an overwhelming cost even if the government pays the salary of the worker on a leave (the only way it can really work). Maybe the answer to that problem is that really important employees who make a lot of money shouldn't be hired as normal workers but as contractors. Something like: if you get 3x more average salary then you are important but you only…

> It's surely doable in big organizations but small businesses it's an overwhelming cost And yet, there they are ... still having small businesses, and consulting shops, and all manner of people continuing operations in the face of such start conditions ;) edit: Holy crap, I hadn't even finished reading your comment > If I am looking for 3rd programmer in my 2 person small company I will not risk hiring a young woman…

Don't like the outcome of his thought-process as well but to be fair, it's just logical self-interest which is exactly his #1 job if he's running his own business.

The answer to this in my opinion is a job-market with less job-security regulation (so that "getting new workers up to speed" will be the norm not the exception for companies) coupled with a tighter social security net (maternity leave paid for by the government) and of course a right-to-return (although, if "getting up to speed" is the norm, it might not be needed anyways).

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#162

Post by simion314 »

irrational wrote: post #150
bluecalm wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Men can get parental leave in European countries, so in this case your strategy is not working. Depends on the country. In mine women get much more time and men usually take none or just a few weeks at most. I think that's the case in most countries.

I live in the USA and at my company (albeit a large one) both men and women get 6 months of paternity/maternity leave.

Here in Romania 10 years ago you had the option to get up to 2 years of paternity (only 1 parent).

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#163

Post by wolfgke »

alkonaut wrote: post #69
rb808 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality its not that simple. Its often extra difficult for 30-35 year old women to find new jobs as employers are wary. Its also more difficult for women to return to work after taking longer off. Discrimination lawsuits are more common in Europe from what I've seen.

That’s why it’s parental leave not maternal leave . Women are usually away longer but it’s not uncommon in countries with long parental leaves to have some part (e.g 1/3) reserved for each parent. Employers aren’t wary if a 30 year old man is as likely to leave for 6 months as a woman is to leave for 12. Orgs don’t avoid hiring all 30year olds out of fear they might become parents. Other reforms such as free/subsidiz…

> Employers aren’t wary if a 30 year old man is as likely to leave for 6 months as a woman is to leave for 12. Orgs don’t avoid hiring all 30year olds out of fear they might become parents.

If you don't know who will leave, just do some statistics. Currently, it is more women. If fashion changes, it might be that an age group that has not completed family planning will simply be discriminated against.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#164

Post by otoburb »

mbesto wrote: post #49
chefkoch wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you have say, a CFO or a specialist mechanic (that you only need 1 of, but definitely need) and they take a year off, what do you do? Just go without a CFO/mechanic for the year? Or do you start the hiring search, bring in another person as a temp CFO for a year? What do you do if your single point gets sick or quits? As a business you need a backup (plan).

At some point (less than 52 weeks) if a $CxO gets sick, then you start investing in an alternative solution. I'm all for parental leave, but the parent account poses a great question - how do you financially account for it? Vacation leave is easy - you allocate days and everyone gets them.

Even with governments paying for parental leave up to the cap, and often with Canadian companies in the talent war offering to "top-up" to X% (e.g. 80% of normal pay), it means that on average Canadian companies may not be as financially competitive compared to international companies operating in labour markets that do not need to offer as much parental leave (e.g. USA).

It's a choice that Canadians (and other countries) have made based on the value Canada places on work-life balance that are simply different from other countries around the world that don't have similar policies. There's definitely a trade-off (societal value vs. economic firm competitiveness).

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#165

Post by dragonwriter »

simion314 wrote: post #111
bluecalm wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surely doable in big organizations but small businesses it's an overwhelming cost even if the government pays the salary of the worker on a leave (the only way it can really work). Maybe the answer to that problem is that really important employees who make a lot of money shouldn't be hired as normal workers but as contractors. Something like: if you get 3x more average salary then you are important but you only…

>If I am looking for 3rd programmer in my 2 person small company I will not risk hiring a young woman Men can get parental leave in European countries, so in this case your strategy is not working.

> Men can get parental leave in European countries

Including in the part of “Europe” south of Canada and north of Mexico; federally, it's up to 12 weeks of job-protected unpaid leave under FMLA, but some states have more and/or paid leave.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#166

Post by slenk »

CloudNetworking wrote: post #144
WorldMaker wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you make the same tough decision and avoid hiring members of the US National Guard, or the Army/Navy/Air Force Reserve, as well, simply because they may be called away for a year or so to serve their country and similarly expect their job to be there when they return? (This is not a facetious question. I think that these are comparable and at least equably honorable. Parental leave is a form of serving your countr…

Or humans. Does he hire humans? humans can and do fall sick from time to time. Ew.

He may be one of the bosses that believes if you're conscious you're healthy enough to be at work

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#168

Post by nasalgoat »

beart wrote: post #9

As a parent, I would much rather take that year and use it to shorten my normal working week for as long as possible. With 260 working days a year, you could work 4 days a week for the first five years of your child's life.

Who's watching the kid the four days you're working?

Watching a baby is a full time job.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#169

Post by woodpanel »

bluecalm wrote: post #95
unavoidable wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly few people are actually trying to answer this question on this thread. The answer is straightforward: you either structure your organization so that there are enough overlapping responsibilities to account for parental leaves (e.g. good business practice of not making a fragile organization), or you hire a temporary employee explicitly on a 1 year "parental leave" contract. The labour market is quite goo…

It's surely doable in big organizations but small businesses it's an overwhelming cost even if the government pays the salary of the worker on a leave (the only way it can really work). Maybe the answer to that problem is that really important employees who make a lot of money shouldn't be hired as normal workers but as contractors. Something like: if you get 3x more average salary then you are important but you only…

While I can relate to your logic, I wonder: Since men are increasingly considering taking maternity leave as well, wouldn't it be a good alternative to focus on people older than say 40? What would keep you from hiring them?

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#170

Post by [deleted] »

WorldMaker wrote: post #127
bluecalm wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surely doable in big organizations but small businesses it's an overwhelming cost even if the government pays the salary of the worker on a leave (the only way it can really work). Maybe the answer to that problem is that really important employees who make a lot of money shouldn't be hired as normal workers but as contractors. Something like: if you get 3x more average salary then you are important but you only…

Do you make the same tough decision and avoid hiring members of the US National Guard, or the Army/Navy/Air Force Reserve, as well, simply because they may be called away for a year or so to serve their country and similarly expect their job to be there when they return? (This is not a facetious question. I think that these are comparable and at least equably honorable. Parental leave is a form of serving your countr…

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