Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves • Hacker News Board

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#41

Post by CydeWeys » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 9:55 PM UTC

erentz wrote: post #8

To be somewhat fair this is still an amazing benefit: “It’s now capping parental leaves at six months and giving parents a taxable $20,000 stipend to defray the costs of childcare.” In the context that they are doing this while few other American organizations do it, and not that many other countries do something this generous.

I've literally never heard of anyone offering better. My company offers 12 weeks parental leave plus 2 (I think?) weeks medical leave for birth mothers, and that's waaaay better than average.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#42

Post by dyarosla » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 9:56 PM UTC

erentz wrote: post #8

To be somewhat fair this is still an amazing benefit: “It’s now capping parental leaves at six months and giving parents a taxable $20,000 stipend to defray the costs of childcare.” In the context that they are doing this while few other American organizations do it, and not that many other countries do something this generous.

From a parent’s perspective: money for time is not what one would call ‘amazing’- one of those two you can never get back. I, and I imagine many parents, would see it as a compromise more than anything.

But- given the enthusiasm in the sibling comments here, it may also be a cultural thing. My opinion is that of a Canadian. Thinking that you don’t need the full first year with your child may be a big cultural difference of opinion.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#43

Post by bargl » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 9:56 PM UTC

hesdeadjim wrote: post #21

erentz wrote: post #8

To be somewhat fair this is still an amazing benefit: “It’s now capping parental leaves at six months and giving parents a taxable $20,000 stipend to defray the costs of childcare.” In the context that they are doing this while few other American organizations do it, and not that many other countries do something this generous.

Yea, the article title can practically considered clickbait when this is the resultant change in benefits. Neither my wife or I had a need to be home for an entire year with our child. Three months for me would've been perfect, six would've been a vacation, and six months plus $20k to cover my daycare expenses for the year would've been... well, words fail me.

OK, I read this felt a wave of relief. I'm not the only one. 1 year off sounds like torture to me.

I'm not saying 1 year with my kid is torture. 1 year in the Caribbean would also be torture to me. I get cabin fever after a few weeks.

My company did give me 1 month and it was awesome. I was also very happy to return to work after 2 (1 month unpaid). It was refreshing to engage that part of my brain again.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#44

Post by simonsarris » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 9:57 PM UTC

DavidHm wrote: post #33

simonsarris wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like the most obvious dodge. I know plenty of companies, especially small ones, where any person in the company is pretty much the bus factor. When they take vacation the company shuts its doors for a few weeks. This is obviously true for startups and small restaurants, especially ones without gobs of VC funding. Is the solution just to exclude companies that cannot get by without doing this? In other word…

If the company is utterly reliant on a single person, that person is either an equity owner, or should be, and the owner is taking advantage of them. If you own in part the business, then imho you take as much or little parental leave as you want/can afford.

The reason I used CFO and specialist mechanic is that often companies are utterly reliant not on a single person, but a single person's work or expertise. It may be no problem at all to hire a replacement expert, just like it is easy to hire a new accountant if your accountant dies from a heart attack.

But you still hire a new accountant, and in this case, with parental leave, hiring someone to do the leaver's job leads to problems because unlike the dead accountant, they come back! This is the issue, that normally you fulfill a specialist role with another hire.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#45

Post by raymond_goo » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

chefkoch wrote: post #12

chrisco255 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except on a global scale.

In Germany we have 12 months parental leave and it seems the country is doing quite well.

google target salden... we are at the verge of a collapse...

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#46

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

rb808 wrote: post #24

I once worked with a guy who had 4 children in 5 years. He took a lot of parental leave, sick days and often slacked off early. As soon as the last baby was stable he quit for a new job. Companies and teams that are too generous get shafted.

Sounds like he's the sort of guy that would work the system no matter what - he could be an argument against sick days or flexible hours as well.

There will always be people like that, but if the societal good outweighs the few bad apples, I'd argue that's a plus in general.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#47

Post by bradlys » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

Didn't know they had such an extremely generous benefit. 52 weeks of paid time off is a huge benefit. I think people here are underestimating how huge that is - it is far better than any country. I don't see any countries that offer 100% PTO for parental leave. Most cap it at $XXX/week or some percentage like 50-66% that is a far cry from 100%. (Which I assume still has a true upper limit but isn't well documented in articles)

Personally, I can't imagine having kids here in the bay area unless I finally hit big startup riches or get a job at FAANG. A month isn't enough time off and unemployment is going to be severely financially draining when state benefits won't even pay half my rent (And the financial burden of health insurance will probably devour most of that before it even gets to paying rent anyway). C'est la vie.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#48

Post by krastanov » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #22

xutopia wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We hire interims or share responsibilities between other members of the team. It happens all the time and we rarely find an issue with this. If any company is run in such a way that bus-factor means the company can't thrive with one person gone you're simply doing it wrong.

This seems like the most obvious dodge. I know plenty of companies, especially small ones, where any person in the company is pretty much the bus factor. When they take vacation the company shuts its doors for a few weeks. This is obviously true for startups and small restaurants, especially ones without gobs of VC funding. Is the solution just to exclude companies that cannot get by without doing this? In other word…

Does the problem still exist if you start distinguishing between employees and more direct stakeholders?

If a "simple" employee is so important that the companies shuts down when they are away, then that employee should be awarded with a true stake in the company and some voting power, not just a salary. Then they can decide for themselves how to deal with such vacations. In that sense I think it is perfectly reasonable to make the kind of businesses or startups from your last paragraph impossible.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#49

Post by mbesto » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

chefkoch wrote: post #26

simonsarris wrote: post #11

> [heading] How do they manage in Canada? > In Canada, companies have had no option but to make 52-week parental leaves work, when requested, since 2000. The question Canadian companies ask isn’t “Can we do it?” but “How do we do it?” Okay, so... how do they do it? They never answer the question. If you have say, a CFO or a specialist mechanic (that you only need 1 of, but definitely need) and they take a year off, w…

>If you have say, a CFO or a specialist mechanic (that you only need 1 of, but definitely need) and they take a year off, what do you do? Just go without a CFO/mechanic for the year? Or do you start the hiring search, bring in another person as a temp CFO for a year? What do you do if your single point gets sick or quits? As a business you need a backup (plan).

At some point (less than 52 weeks) if a $CxO gets sick, then you start investing in an alternative solution.

I'm all for parental leave, but the parent account poses a great question - how do you financially account for it? Vacation leave is easy - you allocate days and everyone gets them.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation backtracks on one-year parental leaves

#50

Post by falcolas » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #5

alkonaut wrote: post #2

“How do other countries do it?” Well it’s not an employer deciding whether it’s done so organizations just deal with it. And yes it does give effects that last years and disrupt organizations three layers deep. But it happens to all organizations, so it’s not a competitive disadvantage.

Except on a global scale.

At a global scale, the nation that respects the fewest human rights will win when it comes to low cost labor. My opinion is that we should never ascribe to be (or be competitive with) that nation, however.