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Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#41

Post by throwaway_boy »

brc wrote: post #38
throwaway_boy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that more initiative will be required of me. In hindsight there were times when there was a vacuum and I could have done something (ultimately the vacuum always stayed there; noone stepped up as it would happen.) Lesson learned. Right now my company is extremely small and utterly flat (it's basically C O's and non-C O's), so there's no room to lead anything. This is really more about whatever I do next.

That terminology sounds almost military. Is that in your past? Because you'll have to throw out the services mindset where there is both a structured path upwards and a structured chain of command. Those things are great for organising massive amounts of people towards difficult goals, but that's not necessarily the right fit for software development. To me most of the boxing in is done in your own mind. In my last c…

I actually wrote C-asterisk-O's and non-C-asterisk-O's, as in wildcards of CEO/COO/CTO/CFO, but HN seemed to parse my markdown and I didn't notice. Whoops. :) No military past in my background.

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#42

Post by pan69 »

yesno wrote: post #34
mikeryan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've pretty much only seen coding CTOs in the startup world (or small Go start a company if you want to grow. You sound skilled. Quit your job, start consulting and start a product on the side as a technical founder.

Here, let me give more "less painful" advise: 1) Don't quit your job, start consulting on the side 2) Don't quit your job, start a product on the side Both options won't cut paycheck. Take calculated risk. OP is no longer a 24 years old super smart developer.

Your advice is sound and it will definitely create security. However, what it will not create is "a sense of urgency". Follow both steps 1 and 2 and ten years from now you will find yourself still employed (by the same people?) and in the same situation.

My advice would be:

1) Make sure you have at least 6 months worth of savings. 2) While you're still in your day job try to land a freelance or contract job. 3) Once you have a gig, THEN quit your job. 4) When the freelance/contract job comes to an end, look for a new one.

Now point 4 will take some time. Maybe a few weeks sometimes more than a month. In that time-frame you can work on your project/product full-time. You might have to go back to contracting, but at least you can put in some decent time to work for project.

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#43

Post by swaits »

ekidd wrote: post #12

The game industry uses the title "Lead Programmer", which I like. A lead programmer supervises "Senior Programmers." This role combines architecture, project management, and some light management responsibilities for the team. You're still writing code, but you have overall responsibility for the technical parts of the project. It sounds like you've held this position at least once, and succeeded. Beyond this point,…

Here at SCEA (San Diego Studio), for programmers we have: Associate Game Programmer, Game Programer, Sr. Game Programmer, Staff Game Programmer, and Sr. Staff Game Programmer (of which there are none that I know).

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#44

Post by swaits »

zach wrote: post #27
ekidd wrote: post #12

The game industry uses the title "Lead Programmer", which I like. A lead programmer supervises "Senior Programmers." This role combines architecture, project management, and some light management responsibilities for the team. You're still writing code, but you have overall responsibility for the technical parts of the project. It sounds like you've held this position at least once, and succeeded. Beyond this point,…

As a word of warning, nearly every single lead programmer I know (in games) find that their schedule and responsibilities tend to expand to the point where they have annoyingly little time to focus on writing code. The sole exception I can think of was a founder of the company -- he was able to effectively delegate management responsibilities and did not need to answer to anyone when he went into heads-down mode to w…

Several years ago, my producer forced me to stop coding, because it was cutting into my time to manage, and I was frequently becoming "critical path" since I couldn't stay focussed entirely on coding tasks.

I do miss coding. But, at the same time, when I want to play around (at home), I'm not completely burned out on it.

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#45

Post by stevewilhelm »

May I suggest that you talk to some of the peers that you mentioned that have moved on to other positions. Ask them how the "strange leaps" came to pass.

You could also ask these peers how their current positions differ from that of a Senior Engineer. What is better, what is worse, what did they find surprising, etc.

Finally, ask the ones you really trust for an honest assessment of your strengths and weaknesses.

In my experience, many Senior Engineers have a hard time moving up to larger (in scope) problems or projects because it requires relinquishing ownership and control of subsystems (silos to use your term) to other engineers, other teams, and other companies. To do this well requires political skills many Senior Engineers lack.

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#46

Post by kls »

yesno wrote: post #34
mikeryan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've pretty much only seen coding CTOs in the startup world (or small Go start a company if you want to grow. You sound skilled. Quit your job, start consulting and start a product on the side as a technical founder.

Here, let me give more "less painful" advise: 1) Don't quit your job, start consulting on the side 2) Don't quit your job, start a product on the side Both options won't cut paycheck. Take calculated risk. OP is no longer a 24 years old super smart developer.

Yeah, quitting your job is a poorly planned out idea, but it does sound like freelancer is your best bet. It gives you the ability to work on different problem sets, as well as upward mobility without having to leave development behind. Many will suggest architect, but in my opinion if you love the code you will not like drawing boxes all day. most of the people that I know that ascended to architect, did not like the position. The recommendation to start consulting on the side is probably the best option. Growing a consultancy while having a steady source of income is a lot easier than trial by fire of popping right into it.

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#48

Post by manish »

mikeryan wrote: post #40
yesno wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, let me give more "less painful" advise: 1) Don't quit your job, start consulting on the side 2) Don't quit your job, start a product on the side Both options won't cut paycheck. Take calculated risk. OP is no longer a 24 years old super smart developer.

So I can't speak to his particular situation. But in general I disagree with this. I think quitting the job is the most important part. Consulting is the safety. "Leap and the net will appear" - John Burroughs

Agreed. We can some how manage to make our living on consulting and cutting expenses, but if you are still in day job, it will take up major part of your time and energy. Also, some companies will have employment agreement that you will not work for any other thing

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#49

Post by rms »

If anyone is looking for a product job, I just came across one of those rare awesome product jobs.

Mention that you saw the job listing via my comment on Hacker News and I'll split the "unusually large" referral reward with you or give the whole thing to your favorite charity.

http://asana.com/jobs#PM

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#50

Post by jonathanlambert »

I don't know what to say — we're super aggressive in my company about promoting talent to technical leadership roles. I run a small (22 person) product/professional services company.

I think it might be the companies you're working for. If you're talented, and you've talked to your boss about it, she/he should respond in the shorter term with an opp. to accomplish your career goals. Or you need to leave the company and get a technical leadership job.

You might just be too tolerant to the paycheck.

I think that's why so many posters are suggesting you start your own startup. Get aggressive (politely) about what you want. Once you know what you want, the world either responds or whatever limits that circumstance goes away (if you're really clear).

My 2c. Startup or be clear with your boss or company switch.

BTW, we're hiring tech leads. :) If you do Drupal or Mobile, email me. :) And no, this does not affect my advice... I'm just saying...

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