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Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

nytimes.com

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Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#311

Post by maxxxxx »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #181
aantix wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without incentives, there is no innovation. And if everyone is entitled to the same portion of the pie, what’s the incentive to work harder? Seeing your neighbor put in a third of the effort and produce the same economic result is demoralizing.

Why does every conversation about social safety nets or a more equitable distribution of wealth involve a rebuttal by one group that goes directly to fulminant communism, the likes of which has never existed? And, how does that same group--that is supposedly so concerned about fairness--see as fair, a status quo which favors capital over labor to an untenable degree?

It’s just a technique. Don’t allow for nuance but take everything to the extreme and the discussion is closed.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#312

Post by abapologist »

lghh wrote: post #267
aantix wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without incentives, there is no innovation. And if everyone is entitled to the same portion of the pie, what’s the incentive to work harder? Seeing your neighbor put in a third of the effort and produce the same economic result is demoralizing.

Trust me, I don't work 3x harder than most of the people I make 3x of. My wife is a teacher and I am in tech, I make 3x her salary. She works way more and spends more of both her physical and emotional labor on her job. I work hard and I do good work, but what she does is not even in the same stratosphere as what I do. I'm not innovating anything, I'm just writing decent code. She's finding new ways to help kids lear…

Pay isn’t connected to effort of labor though.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#313

Post by kiliantics »

fogetti wrote: post #244
habosa wrote: post #222

I am in favor of higher taxes, but that does not solve the dignity issue at all. Taking from the rich to give to the poor only solidifies the division between the two groups. It makes givers and takers, and there will be resentment on both sides. We as a society need to find a way to not only feed and clothe and house everyone but to give them purpose and a voice. Paying off half the workforce doesn't do it.

There are three problems with your statement. First that you assume that we don't have givers and takers right now. Second that you imply that takers are the poor. Third is that you assume there is no resentment at the moment.

Yes. The real issue is that the resentment is between givers and givers. Middle class and working poor are all being screwed over. But the wealthy takers have convinced many of the middle class that their perceived austerity is due to the lazy welfare-takers. And that the "job-givers" (i.e. wealth takers) should be lauded for the part they play.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#314

Post by swarnie_ »

sol_remmy2 wrote: post #231
arandr0x wrote: post #156

I saw this when I arrived in America, and it's the reason I left. I take the bus and seeing literally every day that there were people with families who worried and laughed and were kind who spent 2 hours a day transporting themselves to service or manufacturing industry job when I sat in an air conditioned office making 3x their wages was making me feel terribly guilty. I eventually went back to a country with a soc…

Western European countries hardly take immigrants. When you live in a homogenous, solely middle-class country like Sweden/Denmark/Norway, of course everything seems nice and comfortable. But America accepts some very poor immigrants and allows them to make money and be lifted up. Those are many of the people you saw on the bus.

> Western European countries hardly take immigrants

I almost died reading this blatant lie.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#315

Post by mturmon »

0xfeba wrote: post #258
chosenbreed37 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the U.S. the class into which you are born determines the class you'll reach more than any other factor. Overwhelmingly. It's not even close. Interesting...I've always thought of the US as being more of a meritocracy than the UK and Europe in general. I mean that is what the American dream is all about right?

Nope, I think in pretty much all states, property taxes fund schools in that district . So if your parents have an expensive home, it gathers lots of property tax, which goes mostly to the school in that neighborhood. > American Dream The so-called American Dream of social mobility does not exist anymore. It's a relic from the 50s, where a single income from a modest job could support an entire family, with a summer…

> ...in pretty much all states, property taxes fund schools in that district...

Not in California. Public schools in CA get an essentially-uniform fee (from the state) based on attendance - about $40/day/child.

This helps make things more equal, and it is laudable.

Richer districts, however, have the ability to raise special property taxes, and use gifts from their wealthy residents, to supply extra services for their schools (like music/arts teachers, equipment, and facilities). So, even with a basically "equal" public system, rich districts end up with more.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#316

Post by mac01021 »

g9yuayon wrote: post #109
darawk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, all east asian countries, you're right. China is interesting especially to me though because, just anecdotally, there seem to be an unusually high number of Chinese female STEM graduates. Not sure what's going on there, but they seem to have solved the gender gap in STEM somehow. Could just be i've encountered an unusual sample too, though.

Easy, just tell everyone that anyone can study STEM as long as they work hard. Do you know Noether, Marie Curie, Grace Hopper, Chien-Shiung Wu, and many more female scientists and engineers are household names? They are featured in mass media, in text books, and in our bedtime stories. Gender bias in STEM? That's a god damn first-world problem.

Of those examples, I can almost guarantee you that all of my friends and family from outside of STEM fields have only heard of Curie.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#317

Post by TeMPOraL »

maratd wrote: post #253
HarryHirsch wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if the safety net was too comfortable I doubt I’d have ever felt the need to climb out of it Americans have been conditioned into accepting a staggering amount of abuse and into perpetuating that abuse.

Europeans have been conditioned to depend on state support to the point of being unable to function without it. Not during times of duress. At all times. This creates dependency. You become a slave to the state. When you are a slave to the state, your only recourse for redress is violence. Paris is burning. New York is not.

> Paris is burning. New York is not.

And Occupy movement happened on Mars.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#318

Post by WalterSear »

chosenbreed37 wrote: post #219
unclebucknasty wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have access to “the top” through resourcefulness and risk taking You forgot generational wealth. In the U.S. the class into which you are born determines the class you'll reach more than any other factor. Overwhelmingly. It's not even close. So, it's doubtful that poor people's problem is that they just don't take enough risks.

> In the U.S. the class into which you are born determines the class you'll reach more than any other factor. Overwhelmingly. It's not even close. Interesting...I've always thought of the US as being more of a meritocracy than the UK and Europe in general. I mean that is what the American dream is all about right?

Americans do.

The cultural script that the playing field is inherently fairer than anywhere else is what makes them accept bad conditions without question.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#319

Post by lkrubner »

sol_remmy2 wrote: post #231
arandr0x wrote: post #156

I saw this when I arrived in America, and it's the reason I left. I take the bus and seeing literally every day that there were people with families who worried and laughed and were kind who spent 2 hours a day transporting themselves to service or manufacturing industry job when I sat in an air conditioned office making 3x their wages was making me feel terribly guilty. I eventually went back to a country with a soc…

Western European countries hardly take immigrants. When you live in a homogenous, solely middle-class country like Sweden/Denmark/Norway, of course everything seems nice and comfortable. But America accepts some very poor immigrants and allows them to make money and be lifted up. Those are many of the people you saw on the bus.

This is wildly incorrect. Angela Merkel got in trouble precisely because she accepted so many Syrian refugees. Germany absorbed almost a million refugees in one year, which is an incredible number. On a per capital basis, that would be like the USA accepting 4 million refugees in one year, when in fact net immigration to the USA, of all forms, tends to run at about 10% to 15% of that level.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#320

Post by sharemywin »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #308
moorhosj wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

==solely middle-class country== Isn't it possible that the reason their middle-class is so large is due in some part on political decisions they've made? I think it is at least worth exploring before we jump to the ethnic breakdown of the country. Political choices are something we can change relatively quickly compared to demographics. The US has a higher GDP per capita than Sweden and Denmark which implies that the…

Yes however the demographic diversity in the US makes it less likely for people to want to "spread it" around. If your entire country is the population of one large US metro and everyone is the same ethnicity and culture, there are fewer cognitive impediments to being empathetic at scale.

Personally, I believe that rich people will find a way to justify being more rich. If not they'll hire some economists from Harvard to come up with some good excuses.
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