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Ask YC: Learning to hack...

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Ask YC: Learning to hack...

#41

Post by Shooter »

kirubakaran wrote: post #25
imp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for a non-hacker. That book is great for programmers who want to learn python, but someone new to programming would need something more like "Wade Into Python."

Good point. I stand corrected. "Beginning Python - From Novice To Professional" is good starting point for a newbie. Very clear and smooth.

For a complete newbie, the Zelle book is probably even better. I think it is called "An Introduction to Computer Science Using Python." MIT and a few other schools use it now, but it is a very gentle introduction.

HTDP.org is also really good if you go the Scheme route instead.

Re: Ask YC: Learning to hack...

#43

Post by bigtoga »

tdavis wrote: post #20

Saying you want to learn how to hack is incredibly ambiguous and in the strictest sense of the word pretty difficult to achieve. A "hack" is essentially a clever solution to a programming problem or a solution to a problem that's outside the norm and requires extensive domain knowledge. Judging by the comments it seems the term has been diluted to pretty much be a synonym with "programming" or "coding." If you want t…

"I am a firm believer that regardless of your end goals to really learn programming one must start at the beginning."

Absolutely - I've never met a hacker who didn't know the fundamentals.

Re: Ask YC: Learning to hack...

#44

Post by kirubakaran »

Shooter wrote: post #41
kirubakaran wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I stand corrected. "Beginning Python - From Novice To Professional" is good starting point for a newbie. Very clear and smooth.

For a complete newbie, the Zelle book is probably even better. I think it is called "An Introduction to Computer Science Using Python." MIT and a few other schools use it now, but it is a very gentle introduction. HTDP.org is also really good if you go the Scheme route instead.

Thanks.

Re: Ask YC: Learning to hack...

#45

Post by whiten »

I think I understand the underlying reasoning behind the question. If like me, you have read a lot of the posts on this site, and the essays of Mr Graham, and have a desire to somehow start a start-up, or become your own boss etc., you search for ways to achieve this/these goals.

Most of the advice is fairly general, and I was often left with the feeling that many people just repeat the mantra: 'learn how to hack', 'do something you want, and users will like' etc etc. All good advice I may say, but nothing too concrete on how you actually start!

As hackers, most people will say: "you need to code, and business people, although relevant aren't required straight away."

I sort of agree and disagree. What does not work though is doing nothing, or procrastinating(in the wrong areas).

For me, I decided to at least do SOMETHING. I came from a systems engineering background (read:good Microsoft/Cisco techie, and reasonable sales/presentation sort of guy) - not a hacker though.

So, I decided to attempt to learn Java about a year or two ago. I have done OK with this, but unless you use a language in anger most days, you don't get very far. My latest attempt is Python. I like Core Python Programming 2nd edition by Wesley J. Chun.

What I guess I am trying to say is, you need to work out where you want to be (successful business), and take small steps towards it. That maybe learning business stuff, and it maybe learning to hack. Whatever. Just do something that is a step towards where you want to be, and continually re-evaluate how it's going.

Good luck.

Re: Ask YC: Learning to hack...

#46

Post by dill_day »

bigtoga wrote: post #43
tdavis wrote: post #20

Saying you want to learn how to hack is incredibly ambiguous and in the strictest sense of the word pretty difficult to achieve. A "hack" is essentially a clever solution to a programming problem or a solution to a problem that's outside the norm and requires extensive domain knowledge. Judging by the comments it seems the term has been diluted to pretty much be a synonym with "programming" or "coding." If you want t…

"I am a firm believer that regardless of your end goals to really learn programming one must start at the beginning." Absolutely - I've never met a hacker who didn't know the fundamentals.

I definitely agree with this -- although maybe not that you have to start at the beginning. I started with lots of python/Java, but then dropped down to where I had been staring at enough assembly that moving back up to C was a huge relief.

I think it's nice to get to learn programming and just get going with something like python, where you can take advantage of all the libraries like other people have mentioned, and maybe have more fun right away and avoid being turned off by it all -- before learning all the lower-level stuff -- not that you shouldn't learn it though!!

Re: Ask YC: Learning to hack...

#47

Post by brentr »

It really depends on the domain you want to work in. Do you want to create a web service? Do you want to create systems? Do you want to create a tech start-up? I assume the answer to the last is yes, but even then it is not necessary for every founder to be a hacker, but it certainly does help.

Re: Ask YC: Learning to hack...

#48

Post by dc2k08 »

this is a good thread for me to read. i have found it difficult just to realize what i need to know to start working on projects that i have in mind. i have so far been working with html css and some java script to design static web-sites but am really unsure as to where to go to make a simple web-app with a database to store user information that produces a dhtml page.

i was thinking of picking up a mysql book for dummies yesterday but decided to put it off till i finish the one on javascript. though even then im not sure if that's what i need to know or if its the right choice

with so much buzz about rails everywhere i was contemplating picking up something on that but then there is python too, and i havent a clue what exactly they do. then there is the new google app engine. will that help me? i signed up, but am yet to fully delve into exactly what it does for a developer. i guess there is alot of ways to cook an egg. but this forum really helps alot.

Re: Ask YC: Learning to hack...

#49

Post by tdavis »

dill_day wrote: post #46
bigtoga wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I am a firm believer that regardless of your end goals to really learn programming one must start at the beginning." Absolutely - I've never met a hacker who didn't know the fundamentals.

I definitely agree with this -- although maybe not that you have to start at the beginning. I started with lots of python/Java, but then dropped down to where I had been staring at enough assembly that moving back up to C was a huge relief. I think it's nice to get to learn programming and just get going with something like python, where you can take advantage of all the libraries like other people have mentioned, an…

Right. I guess the real step one is to find out if you even enjoy programming. You're correct that it's much easier to determine this realistically if you start by playing with one of the higher-level languages you will eventually end up using.

Good call.

Re: Ask YC: Learning to hack...

#50

Post by xenoterracide »

as a novice, but language bigot it depends a lot on what you want to make.

Low level, kernel, command line C is king. Python for slightly slower but faster coding.

For an GUI program use C++ (qt is a good toolkit).

For Web Pages learn html/css and then add javascript. After that I would say mysql (or postgresql. I like postgresql better) and php. you can trade php for perl/python/ruby if you like.

Web means learning a lot of languages but to me seems the easiest.

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