Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

linuxjournal.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 277 posts

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#231

Post by Godel_unicode »

anth_anm wrote: post #184
dragonwriter wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My impression, from my seat in Europe, is that USA government is run by rich capitalists that would as soon eat faeces live on TV as suggest private corporations be required to service the public good? Not quite true. Rich capitalists largely have better things to do than bother with the details of running government. But it is, to a large extent, run by people under the influence of (whether directly seeking money…

They don't care about what the government does, subject to the bounds of "don't touch my money". The ones who do care more than that tend to be absolutely awful.

Like Tesla? Or Patagonia, or REI, or allbirds, or bullfrog power, or seventh generation?

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#233

Post by austincheney »

As a government employee and software developer I think this is completely the wrong argument. Before we get that argument we should convince the government to not be afraid of writing software. In all but a few edge cases the government doesn't want employees writing software for a number of unfounded irrational reasons. Many areas of the government, especially the military, are still afraid of using any open source software.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#234

Post by shmerl »

ecshafer wrote: post #5

I am an open source advocate, but I don't really agree here. Should the IRS, NSA, CIA, and FBI code all be open source? Here are some cases where closed source software, with some security by obscurity could be helpful. Another example would be some software around designing nuclear systems. But as an example maybe a software funded by the national weather service to run simulations, that aught to be open source (per…

Isn't security by obscurity only giving a false sense of security? So it's actually making things worse.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#235

Post by TimTheTinker »

ar_lan wrote: post #102
GlenTheMachine wrote: post #91

Government scientist here. IANAL, but my understanding is that all software written by US government civil servants is in the public domain. It cannot be copyrighted or otherwise licensed (although the government can patent things). This does not necessarily mean that it is available to the public, as noted in the other comments; it may be classified, considered For Official Use Only, or restricted from release by IT…

I used to work in a state government job as a student intern, and they said they wanted an internal directory for some various tasks. You can think of it like an inventory manager sort of website, purely on our intranet. The mad lad my lead was, said we would need a database for retaining some of the basic data we needed to keep track of. Nothing all that special, just a few tables, and by nature nothing sensitive wo…

Flat files are a perfectly acceptable way of storing and retrieving data. Never start a greenfield software project with "ok, first we're going to need a database." At least defer it until you know it's the best way forward.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#236

Post by Godel_unicode »

mountainofdeath wrote: post #107
ar_lan wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work in a state government job as a student intern, and they said they wanted an internal directory for some various tasks. You can think of it like an inventory manager sort of website, purely on our intranet. The mad lad my lead was, said we would need a database for retaining some of the basic data we needed to keep track of. Nothing all that special, just a few tables, and by nature nothing sensitive wo…

Shh... Don't tell them that stuff like SQLite _is_ a flat-file database.

I've never understood this argument; sqlite specifies a file format, but that's hardly the only requirement.

By this argument, any database with a public file spec is a flat-file database.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#237

Post by [deleted] »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #132
GlenTheMachine wrote: post #91

Government scientist here. IANAL, but my understanding is that all software written by US government civil servants is in the public domain. It cannot be copyrighted or otherwise licensed (although the government can patent things). This does not necessarily mean that it is available to the public, as noted in the other comments; it may be classified, considered For Official Use Only, or restricted from release by IT…

> The bigger problem, though, is that much of the US government just isn't technically set up to release software (as opposed to documents). Setting up a git repository, in the DoD, is an utter nightmare. Every single patch has to be pushed through a public release process that can take weeks or months and involves review by as many as ten to fifteen different offices, few if any of which even know anything about sof…

[deleted]

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#238

Post by Godel_unicode »

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #91

Government scientist here. IANAL, but my understanding is that all software written by US government civil servants is in the public domain. It cannot be copyrighted or otherwise licensed (although the government can patent things). This does not necessarily mean that it is available to the public, as noted in the other comments; it may be classified, considered For Official Use Only, or restricted from release by IT…

Government development can be bad, but it's nothing compared with most other large verticals (bio, insurance, finance, air lines...). None of the absolute statements here are remotely close to universally applicable (check out forge, 18f, national labs, the recent NSA ghidra announcement, etc).

> Setting up a git repository

Git != GitHub

> Every single patch has to be pushed through a public release process

Rebase is your friend.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#239

Post by jotux »

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #91

Government scientist here. IANAL, but my understanding is that all software written by US government civil servants is in the public domain. It cannot be copyrighted or otherwise licensed (although the government can patent things). This does not necessarily mean that it is available to the public, as noted in the other comments; it may be classified, considered For Official Use Only, or restricted from release by IT…

With regard to the DoD the CIO released some good guidance on OSS: https://dodcio.defense.gov/Open-Source-Software-FAQ/

Here is an excerpt that talks about licensing:

>Q: Can government employees develop software and release it under an open source license?

>Not under typical open source software licenses based on copyright, but there is an alternative with the same practical effect.

>Software developed by US federal government employees (including military personnel) as part of their official duties is not subject to copyright protection and is considered “public domain” (see 17 USC § 105). Public domain software can be used by anyone for any purpose, and cannot be released under a copyright license (including typical open source software licenses).

>However, software written entirely by federal government employees as part of their official duties can be released as “public domain” software. This is not under a copyright license, it is absence of a license. By some definitions this is technically not an open source license (because no license is needed), but “public domain” software can be legally used, modified, and combined with other software without restriction. Thus, “public domain” software provides recipients all of the rights that open source software must provide.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#240

Post by westurner »

From the US Digital Services Playbook [1]:

> PLAY 13

> Default to open

> When we collaborate in the open and publish our data publicly, we can improve Government together. By building services more openly and publishing open data, we simplify the public’s access to government services and information, allow the public to contribute easily, and enable reuse by entrepreneurs, nonprofits, other agencies, and the public.

> Checklist

> - Offer users a mechanism to report bugs and issues, and be responsive to these reports

> [...]

> - Ensure that we maintain contractual rights to all custom software developed by third parties in a manner that is publishable and reusable at no cost

> [...]

> - When appropriate, publish source code of projects or components online

> [...]

> Key Questions

> [...]

> - If the codebase has not been released under an open source license, explain why.

> - What components are made available to the public as open source?

> [...]

[1] https://playbook.cio.gov/#play13

Post reply on HN