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Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

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Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#191

Post by Para2016 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #31

I'd technically be in the demographic for this. I have a less than 10 mile commute. However, that 28 MpH maximum speed is a legitimate limitation/problem, even on my under 10 mile commute, there's at least two roads that are 40 MpH (people drive 45 MpH), and I'm going to get honked at if I can barely maintain 28 MpH. I like the price and concept... But that max speed is a deal breaker. It will be interesting to see w…

"the US version will start at $8,950"

I don't like that price point at all. With $9k you can get a much better vehicle that has far more utility.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#192

Post by kbenson »

gamegoblin wrote: post #137
Gravityloss wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just so cool. I don't know why. It's somehow got this giant "I do what I want" attitude written on it. Muscle cars seem so conservative and formulaic.

For whatever reason, the current generation of teenagers seems to think it's really cool. I get compliments and genuine interest from that cohort all the time. I guess it might be because it's kind of a rebellious/counterculture/ironic sort of vehicle to drive in a country dominated by F-150 style trucks.

I knew someone when I was in high school that drove a Jeep CJ (not sure if it was a retired postal jeep or was originally sold as consumer), and I was immediately taken by how cool it was, and how much I wanted one.

I think it appeals to some in the same way that classic muscle cards do or did. Most people I knew that owned and or "restored" (using that term loosely) these cars when I was young were much less interested in being historically accurate, and much more interested in putting their own touch on them. It's a method of self expression and displaying your identity, and one that's approachable to those that are sometimes much shyer about doing so in other manners.

I speak as someone whose first car was a 1967 Mustang, and whose second was a 1973 240Z, but who now happily splits my driving time between a Toyota Camry and Honda Odyssey. I sometimes entertain the idea of starting a project car again, but with so many other projects to choose from, I doubt I'll get to it any time in the next decade.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#193

Post by ph33t »

mimixco wrote: post #69

I think these are a terrific idea! If someone wants to ride around without crash protection, they're already able to do that in the US. It's called a motorcycle. Individual buyers should be free to choose how much safety they want in their vehicles vs. how much they're willing to pay.

Yes. I agree so much. Everyone should be free to purchase the car they want. If it sucks gas, the free market takes care of it with gas costs. I pay a ton more in gas tax (priced per gallon) than a smaller car. I also am free to use the suburban for what I want ... long road trips with my family of 5. Towing my boat. Hauling wood. I am also free to park the thing in my garage, because weather permitting (meaning above 10 degrees F) I commute 15 miles each way on my bicycle. My choice. Not anyone else's - including (and especially) the government.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#194

Post by kbenson »

UncleEntity wrote: post #158
MrRadar wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the safety equipment standards I listed are for new vehicles. Existing/used vehicles only need to comply with the standards that were in effect when they were new (and even then those standards are only enforced in the 15 states with mandatory safety inspections). The only exception I think is seatbelts since it's illegal to drive a car without wearing one in all but one state.

> The only exception I think is seatbelts since it's illegal to drive a car without wearing one in all but one state. I know in Arizona if the car didn't originally come with seatbelts then you don't have to install them. Used to have a '53 Dodge that didn't have them and it was fine -- kind of freaked out my sister though...

Careful about relying on that, as while state law may not require you add safety equipment such as seat belts, county or city law might. I live in a location in California (which doesn't require seat belts in cars prior to 1965 that didn't originally sell with them), but the local laws require them to be present and utilized while any vehicle is in operation.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#195

Post by ajmurmann »

ngngngng wrote: post #189
ajmurmann wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally this would have only targeted vehicles that have this problem. I wonder if they didn't want to disadvantage pick up trucks because they are pretty much exclusively made in the US due to existing burden on imported pick ups. I for one wish we could find a way to address the US pickup and SUV disease and encourage much smaller cars.

I agree that it's a disease, but I believe it's simply a disease of luxury. Americans are wealthy enough to buy the most convenient car possible and afford the gas costs that go with it. I drive small cars and once in a while with passengers we feel cramped, or I have to borrow my dads truck to haul some wood for a project or some plants from the nursery.

I think it must be more than that though. People in central and northern Europe have plenty of money as well and spend a fair amount on cars. Those cars tend to be very different though. You'll likely see more luxury sedans, tuned Golfs etc. Pickup trucks are almost entirely non-existent. Business would get a sprinter that actually keeps stuff dry.

I think at least part of it is feeling unsafe in a sedan with these giant trucks around you. There also might be a uniquely American affection for that type of vehicle and the image that goes with it, as well as a ignorance for climate concerns. More often than not when I see a vehicle with a American flag on it it's a pickup and certainly never a Prius.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#196

Post by jessaustin »

grzm wrote: post #141
samplatt wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seeing a lot of "John Deer == Quality" comments in this thread. My farming background says "John Deer == artificially (and insanely) expensive maintenance". I've always equated JD with just being one of the biggest players, not necessarily a reflection of good quality.

That said, we had no issues with the John Deere trackers we had. Same with IH, for that matter.

...no issues...

You've been fortunate with your tractors. IME, even "quality" brands like Deere and IH often have infuriating issues for which one eventually learns to compensate. It's good to talk to a few people before buying anything. My dad has a guy he always calls who owns a tractor auction, and can be trusted to tell the truth about different models.

Ceteris paribus, I would just get a Kubota.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#197

Post by mikekchar »

twblalock wrote: post #128
Poiesis wrote: post #33

At that price point I'd enthusiastically recommend a three year old Nissan Leaf; that's about what I paid and it's served me well.

The resale value is so bad (except for Teslas) that it probably makes more sense to lease electric cars than to buy new. Every generation of electric cars is such a big improvement over the previous one, especially in terms of range and fast charging, that the resale value of the old ones is unusually low.

I struggled with this one recently. My wife and I bought a 2 year old leaf (30 KWh) in Japan recently. We ended up with a pretty good deal -- the car only had 6K km on the dial and we're paying less than $300 per month with no down payment. I'm basically treating it as a lease. It was hard to find anyone here willing to lease a Leaf and I couldn't get them to give me an idea on the price without going into serious negotiations, so we went with the sale. It also helped that they gave us basically free charging for 2 years (they have a $20 per month unlimited charging plan, but then are giving us $20 per month in JCB gift certificates, which are accepted in enough places that it's essentially cash). My plan is to pay off the car in 5 years and replace it. I don't really expect to get anything substantial for it.

When we end up replacing it, I may consider doing a battery swap instead. The dealer told me that you can swap the battery for about $7K. I'm wondering if it will be possible to upgrade things for a reasonable cost in 5 years time. I've been looking at the new e+ leafs and I think the form factor for the batteries is the same, so potentially you just need to swap out the batteries and replace the power management unit. Whether that's even possible, I don't know.

Either way, if we can replace this car in 5 years with a car made 3 years from now, then I think we'll still be quite a bit ahead of the game compared to buying a new car.

I was a bit nervous about going EV, but it's been a couple of months now and I've had literally no problems at all. Now sure how well it would work in many places in NA, but here in Japan, I've been very surprised about how convenient it has been. Doing our first real road trip next month, though. We'll see how it goes ;-)

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#198

Post by cr0sh »

ngngngng wrote: post #81
dv_dt wrote: post #55

These seem like utility (landscaping) grade golf carts that are already a market in the US. Available in mostly gas, but some electric forms. https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/ https://www.toro.com/en/sports-fields-municipalities/utility... https://www.catresourcecenter.com/machine/landscaping/utilit...

I just don't get it. a John Deere Gator with two seats and 4 wheels, and not much else costs over $7000 new. No windows, No airbags, pathetic top speed, not road legal. A Lada 4x4 costs less than that brand new in Russia. Road legal, standard car top speed. Known as a very reliable car. Why can't I buy a really cheap car in the United States? edit: also the lada 4x4 is possibly the coolest car i've ever seen, in it's…

This is the vehicle that I wish could get funded, and then be purchasable in the United States - but I doubt that will ever happen:

http://oxgvt.com/

The only vehicle I'd like to own more than that one is a re-release of the M274 Mule:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M274_%C2%BD-ton_4%C3%974_utili...

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#199

Post by linksnapzz »

stemc43 wrote: post #104
ngngngng wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I assume it's better than the more expensive open air golf cart that i'm comparing to though. edit: What i'm trying to say is, why is a fully functional car (even with bad crash safety and emissions) cheaper outside the United States than a golf cart is here? The answer seems obvious to me. Making it illegal to import cars has stifled competition and hurt consumers in the US.

politics. US car market is protectionist in nature.

Yes, the domestic automakers are terrified that someone will begin importing a new vehicle that is nearly competitive with a 1979 AMC Eagle. Clearly, a protective tariff is what's called for, to prevent the US auto industry from being overwhelmed by the makers of Soviet 4x4s and chest-freezer sized Japanese cargo vans.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#200

Post by cr0sh »

gamegoblin wrote: post #112
MrRadar wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Road legal" has a different standard in the US. To sell a car in the US it must have airbags, ABS, electronic stability control, a backup camera (also implying a decently-large full-color display on the dashboard), and it must meet USDOT, NHTSA, and EPA standards (each of which are slightly incompatible with standards from other regions, and intentionally so as a soft trade barrier). I'm guessing that the Lada 4x4 w…

FWIW if the car is >= 25 years old, most of these regulations go away. I have a 1990 Subaru Sambar pickup truck [1] imported from Japan that is street legal and registered in Washington state. It’s probably only a tiny bit safer than a motorcycle because it has seatbelts. Maybe cancelled out by the fact that I don’t wear a helmet while driving it. You can get them for $3K - 5K depending on condition and they are exce…

Regs also "go away" if you sell the car in parts that can be put together; it basically becomes a "kit car" at that point.

Plus, there is some kind of loophole out there for some of the quads out there (well, at least here in Arizona - we play kinda fast and loose with such I guess), like the CanAm vehicles; I see them licensed and tagged and going down the road all the time here in sand land.

Then again, that re-issue of the Jeep from India can't be sold and driven on road legally - even here in AZ:

https://jalopnik.com/the-mahindra-roxor-is-a-tiny-offroad-je...

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