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How Israel handles airport security

thestar.com

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Re: How Israel handles airport security

#31

Post by bruceboughton »

SandB0x wrote: post #19

I have dual Israeli citizenship and have flown to and from Tel Aviv quite a few times. * The line interviewers are smart people, and it's seen as a good first job after military service. In other places this might be seen as a dead-end or undesirable job. * The atmosphere in Ben Gurion is very calm because everyone feels safe (or at least I do). * The only time I've seen any mild panic was due to my (late) great-aunt…

When we were flying from SFO last year, we spotted an unattended suitcase in the check-in desk queue. Naturally, we told the nearest TSA agent. Imagine how shocked we were when he seemed totally disinterested. He told us someone had probably left it for a minute, and had we asked the people around? After some encouragement, he asked the people around and after finding no owner, picked it up and moved it out of the queue to the side, still in the main terminal.

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#33

Post by idoh »

I had a first hand experience flying out of Israel with the questioning side. For various accidental and benign reasons I got a little extra questioning, which was on the topics of: do I speak Hebrew?, what synagogue do I go to in the US?, and why didn't I have any checked luggage?

In the end I gave the guards the phone number of my relatives, and they talked to them, and that's how I got through the checkpoint.

So anyway, they do seem to focus on the person and their circumstances, and not on what that person is or is not carrying. Also, the guards were not the typical process-following types that you'd see at the TSA. Their job is to engage you in conversation, and make decisions without following a flowchart.

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#34

Post by yummyfajitas »

msbarnett wrote: post #22
yummyfajitas wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That probably underestimates what it would cost us to have Israeli style security. In the US, we would need to pay market rates for airport security personnel. In Israel, they can pay far less since much of Israel's domestic security is provided by forced labor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#Countries_with_and...

The upkeep on soldiers is almost certainly more than the upkeep on these minimum wage TSA contractors.

TSA screeners are federal employees, not contractors, and they are paid considerably more than minimum wage (not to mention generous federal benefits and locality pay).

http://www.tsa.gov/join/careers/pay_scales.shtm

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#35

Post by bruceboughton »

daten wrote: post #29
icegreentea wrote: post #11

While many of the Israel procedures might be kinda hard to implement in the States or Canada (or elsewhere), there's really a few that really should be looked at. Like the whole containment thing. "First, the screening area is surrounded by contoured, blast-proof glass that can contain the detonation of up to 100 kilos of plastic explosive. Only the few dozen people within the screening area need be removed, and only…

Consider how many bottles of liquid the TSA confiscates in a day because they might be explosives. Now imagine actually treating each of those as if the agent really believed it was a threat in the style described in the article. Does this still make sense?

It would make sense if they actually put some thought into identifying threats, rather than simply confiscating items previously used in thwarted attacks.

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#36

Post by TravisLS »

daten wrote: post #29
icegreentea wrote: post #11

While many of the Israel procedures might be kinda hard to implement in the States or Canada (or elsewhere), there's really a few that really should be looked at. Like the whole containment thing. "First, the screening area is surrounded by contoured, blast-proof glass that can contain the detonation of up to 100 kilos of plastic explosive. Only the few dozen people within the screening area need be removed, and only…

Consider how many bottles of liquid the TSA confiscates in a day because they might be explosives. Now imagine actually treating each of those as if the agent really believed it was a threat in the style described in the article. Does this still make sense?

In fairness, I get the feeling the TSA doesn't actually think any of these bottles of liquid are explosives, since they just throw them in the public terminal trash cans.

If they did treat every water bottle as an explosive, then yes, this procedure would make a lot more sense than evacuating the terminal.

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#37

Post by ck2 »

Doesn't Israel also destroy the homes of any bomber's family? (seriously, google it)

That is more likely the deterrent. So should the USA do that too for all our domestic terrorists?

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#38

Post by BlazingFrog »

Although it was fairly explicitly pointed in the article (by Rafi Sela), I'm not seeing much of it discussed here. I think a big part of it is cultural. Americans may object to this but I believe that, by virtue of having been shielded from any major aggression on its territory outside of 9/11, they don't know how to react to threats in a reasonable way. Most of what has been done by the government since then resembles more knee-jerk, fear-tainted overreaction than a sensible response to a grave, but also well documented abroad, problem. Mr Sela uses the "Americans-take-too-much-shit-from their government" line but I believe this is simply out of inexperience in dealing with these issues.

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#39

Post by alex_c »

nodata wrote: post #15
credo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree on both counts. 1. Costs: I think the value of preventing a terrorist attack greatly outweighs the $76/passenger cost of screening. Besides, it contributes a lot of value to the economy by (a) reducing the long lines we have in our airports today and (b) eliminating the unnecessary intrusive procedures 2. Racial profiling: Behavioral profiling is not the same as racial profiling. Besides do you really thin…

Can I ask how are you comparing costs here? 76 dollars per passenger is an obscene amount of money: look at the dollar totals. In terms of lives saved, the TSA is already a gigantic waste of money. You could save a lot more lives per dollar by doing hundreds of other different things.

$77 per passenger is a huge amount, especially compared to the cost of a cheap domestic flight. But what is the hidden cost of the clusterfuck that American airports are becoming?

I would gladly pay an extra $38 per flight if it meant going through a sane, competent, and, if not pleasant, at least not overtly hostile system.

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#40

Post by siculars »

tshtf wrote: post #26
SandB0x wrote: post #19

I have dual Israeli citizenship and have flown to and from Tel Aviv quite a few times. * The line interviewers are smart people, and it's seen as a good first job after military service. In other places this might be seen as a dead-end or undesirable job. * The atmosphere in Ben Gurion is very calm because everyone feels safe (or at least I do). * The only time I've seen any mild panic was due to my (late) great-aunt…

If you were an Israeli Arab, do you think you'd feel the same way about the situation at Ben Gurion?

How do you know s/he is not an Israeli Arab?
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