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Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

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Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#171

Post by freehunter »

Phlarp wrote: post #154
freehunter wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two cars of the same mass hitting each other head on at 25mph is the same as one car hitting a solid (immovable) wall at 25mph. Regardless, a bicycle moving at 25mph being hit head on by a car moving 25mph is going to be (at best) comparable to this thing getting hit at 25mph.

Maybe _you_ can only go 25mph, the other vehicles have no such restrictions.

Again... same is true for a bicycle. Or a pedestrian. Or a Segway. We can argue physics and legalities but no one has seemed to touch the actual substance of my point, which is "does this thing need to offer better crash protection than its closest competitor, a bike?"

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#172

Post by KorematsuFred »

ngngngng wrote: post #81
dv_dt wrote: post #55

These seem like utility (landscaping) grade golf carts that are already a market in the US. Available in mostly gas, but some electric forms. https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/ https://www.toro.com/en/sports-fields-municipalities/utility... https://www.catresourcecenter.com/machine/landscaping/utilit...

I just don't get it. a John Deere Gator with two seats and 4 wheels, and not much else costs over $7000 new. No windows, No airbags, pathetic top speed, not road legal. A Lada 4x4 costs less than that brand new in Russia. Road legal, standard car top speed. Known as a very reliable car. Why can't I buy a really cheap car in the United States? edit: also the lada 4x4 is possibly the coolest car i've ever seen, in it's…

Few reasons :

1. Higher government regulations. This includes safety as well as emission regulations.

2. Actual implementation of those regulations. In many countries as I know regulations are routinely ignored and bribes are paid to keep quiet.

3. Contrary to what others might tell you American cars tend to be far more robust than most other countries. This is because Americans drive more and over longer distances and far too often.

4. There is no market for cheap cars in USA. That Lada 4x4 will not sell in USA at all with its mere 1.6L engine and 90 Mph max speed.

Of course if Lada had to slightly rebrand and market its car as "non-road vehicle" they might sell for the $7000k. Mahindra from India did the same and they have been selling their mini jeep for <$10k.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#173

Post by thisisweirdok »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #111
thisisweirdok wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could get by with 28 MPH in some cities. Boston for example has a 25 MPH speed limit city-wide, unless posted otherwise. It wouldn't work in some places, but I wouldn't mind using a fancy golf cart there to run errands. That Pickman truck in the article is right up my alley.

NEVs have been available for 20+ years. If you want one you can have one now.

Most shops I've seen are small boutiques rather than auto manufacturers and they're priced accordingly (no economy of scale). Seems hard to get something that isn't a literal golf cart (i.e., has no cargo space or doors) for under $10k.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#174

Post by toomanybeersies »

jamessantiago wrote: post #116
gamegoblin wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW if the car is >= 25 years old, most of these regulations go away. I have a 1990 Subaru Sambar pickup truck [1] imported from Japan that is street legal and registered in Washington state. It’s probably only a tiny bit safer than a motorcycle because it has seatbelts. Maybe cancelled out by the fact that I don’t wear a helmet while driving it. You can get them for $3K - 5K depending on condition and they are exce…

You just rekindled my long time desire to own one of these. I saw them all over the place in okinawa and I have a die-cast toy car of one somewhere around here. I remember there was someone who put that longhorn decoration you see as a texas cliche on one. They definitely are pretty neat. It would be great for hauling landscaping items from my local nursery without having to get a full sized truck.

You can get 4x4 kei trucks as well. They're quite popular in New Zealand for farm work. Not road legal at all, but if you put offroad tyres on, they're basically a quad bike with a roof and a tray.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#175

Post by walrus01 »

gamegoblin wrote: post #112
MrRadar wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Road legal" has a different standard in the US. To sell a car in the US it must have airbags, ABS, electronic stability control, a backup camera (also implying a decently-large full-color display on the dashboard), and it must meet USDOT, NHTSA, and EPA standards (each of which are slightly incompatible with standards from other regions, and intentionally so as a soft trade barrier). I'm guessing that the Lada 4x4 w…

FWIW if the car is >= 25 years old, most of these regulations go away. I have a 1990 Subaru Sambar pickup truck [1] imported from Japan that is street legal and registered in Washington state. It’s probably only a tiny bit safer than a motorcycle because it has seatbelts. Maybe cancelled out by the fact that I don’t wear a helmet while driving it. You can get them for $3K - 5K depending on condition and they are exce…

Just don't plan on driving one if you're over 5'10".

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#176

Post by toomanybeersies »

UncleEntity wrote: post #158
MrRadar wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the safety equipment standards I listed are for new vehicles. Existing/used vehicles only need to comply with the standards that were in effect when they were new (and even then those standards are only enforced in the 15 states with mandatory safety inspections). The only exception I think is seatbelts since it's illegal to drive a car without wearing one in all but one state.

> The only exception I think is seatbelts since it's illegal to drive a car without wearing one in all but one state. I know in Arizona if the car didn't originally come with seatbelts then you don't have to install them. Used to have a '53 Dodge that didn't have them and it was fine -- kind of freaked out my sister though...

To be fair, it is still reckless to drive an old car without seatbelts. Even more so than driving a newer car without seatbelts.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#177

Post by squarefoot »

matthewaveryusa wrote: post #40
zazen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these road-legal in the west? If the off-road farm and construction-site applications are the only use-cases, that would seem to rather limit the impact on the market.

These I'm not sure, but overall yes they can be street legal: The Renault Twizy -- I've seen them in France and in Cambridge, MA ( https://www.bonzer.rocks/ ) They're in use and cost ~10k. Last time I checked you can get a 25mpg and a 50mpg version. While the 25mpg versions are street legal and available now in the US market, I believe the 50mpg version is still only available in europe. https://www.renault.fr/vehicu…

According to an owner I had a chat with a while ago, the catch with the Twizy is the monthly battery pack "insurance" which isn't that cheap. IIRC there are two options for a buyer: either pay this insurance that covers everything, including getting a new pack once the old one is depleted, or buying the new pack as a spare part which will cost about half of the car price. All things considered, it's a nice vehicle that is getting some success (I've saw a few during last years) yet still not economically convenient compared to traditional cars.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#179

Post by gamegoblin »

walrus01 wrote: post #175
gamegoblin wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW if the car is >= 25 years old, most of these regulations go away. I have a 1990 Subaru Sambar pickup truck [1] imported from Japan that is street legal and registered in Washington state. It’s probably only a tiny bit safer than a motorcycle because it has seatbelts. Maybe cancelled out by the fact that I don’t wear a helmet while driving it. You can get them for $3K - 5K depending on condition and they are exce…

Just don't plan on driving one if you're over 5'10".

I am 5'10" and have 5" of headroom (just went out and measured to write this comment!). The cab is actually really spacious.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#180

Post by ajmurmann »

MrRadar wrote: post #149
tptacek wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL new cars sold in the US require backup cameras. Wow.

It's because there are so many trucks and SUVs which can completely obscure people (especially children) under 5 ft (~1.5 m) from their rear windows when they are too close to the vehicle because the vehicles are so high off the ground.

Ideally this would have only targeted vehicles that have this problem. I wonder if they didn't want to disadvantage pick up trucks because they are pretty much exclusively made in the US due to existing burden on imported pick ups. I for one wish we could find a way to address the US pickup and SUV disease and encourage much smaller cars.
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