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If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

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Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#181

Post by Zanni »

logfromblammo wrote: post #158
m0zg wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really should be a provably unambiguous ruleset that would take in the person's circumstances and numbers and spit out a number, yes. I understand that your post is a joke, but that'd be an _awesome_ thing to have for everyone, especially if coupled with some adversarial tech to find and close loopholes. Which is, ironically, why this isn't going to happen.

This might work: x = gross_income / median_income; if( x Math.ln() is the log function for base e, and Math.li() is the logarithmic integral function. The constants are based on the income at 50 times the median income having a marginal tax rate of 50%, and the median income having a marginal tax rate of 0%. Marginal tax rates above 50% asymptotically approach 100%. There are no loopholes or exemptions. If the median…

You're solving the wrong problem. Calculating tax owed is the easy part. Figuring out your income is the challenge: tracking all your business expenses, depreciation, credits, exemptions, etc.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#182

Post by basseq »

unreal37 wrote: post #105

An unpopular opinion I guess, but the article is saying if you receive government funding, it should be open source. That's more than just government employees making code. It's also any company, individual or agency that even accepts $1 of public grant money or any external contracts. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of coders who's daily job is partially funded by the government having to push their code p…

> the article is saying if you receive government funding, it should be open source.

Despite the headline, the article actually doesn't state that. It says thing like, "any government code produced with public money", "all software developed for the government", and "any source code written by the government must be released".

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#183

Post by c22 »

m0zg wrote: post #171
logfromblammo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might work: x = gross_income / median_income; if( x Math.ln() is the log function for base e, and Math.li() is the logarithmic integral function. The constants are based on the income at 50 times the median income having a marginal tax rate of 50%, and the median income having a marginal tax rate of 0%. Marginal tax rates above 50% asymptotically approach 100%. There are no loopholes or exemptions. If the median…

There's one fly in this socialist ointment: all the rich people will immediately bail, and go live elsewhere.

It shouldn't matter where they live if they're still making their money here. And if they're not making any money then they're not paying taxes under this scheme anyway.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#184

Post by anth_anm »

dragonwriter wrote: post #177
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most software developed by government funds is developed, at least in part, by contractors. And that is a COMPLETELY different circumstance. The details, unsurprisingly, depend on the contract. // Isn't the point that the contact should have a non-negotiable OSS clause of it's using public funds. My impression, from my seat in Europe, is that USA government is run by rich capitalists that would as soon eat faeces li…

> My impression, from my seat in Europe, is that USA government is run by rich capitalists that would as soon eat faeces live on TV as suggest private corporations be required to service the public good? Not quite true. Rich capitalists largely have better things to do than bother with the details of running government. But it is, to a large extent, run by people under the influence of (whether directly seeking money…

They don't care about what the government does, subject to the bounds of "don't touch my money".

The ones who do care more than that tend to be absolutely awful.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#185

Post by maerF0x0 »

arthurjj wrote: post #25
maerF0x0 wrote: post #3

Also of concern is a tragedy of commons like issue where those who contributed no funding are able to get the software for free. For example if a piece of city focused software is FOSS and then a bunch of other cities choose to consume it but not contribute to the funding or code.

Agreed the other cities are being a jerk but not exactly a tragedy of the commons [1] as OSS is not a rival good [2]. One city using the software does not prevent others from using it. [1] https://market.subwiki.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons [2] https://market.subwiki.org/wiki/Rival_good

I agree, it's not about the race to consume, but "Free Rider Problem"

  The problem in this case is how to get people to pay for the creation of the good in the first place, because people know that even if they do not pay for the creation of the good, they can still enjoy the benefits.
https://market.subwiki.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#186

Post by [deleted] »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #173
dwheeler wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly sortof true, but there are lots of complications. I've delved into this. For lots of detail on the current situation, see my paper, "Publicly Releasing Open Source Software Developed for the U.S. Government" by David A. Wheeler, https://www.csiac.org/journal-article/publicly-releasing-ope... In almost all cases, if a US Federal employee writes software as part of his/her official duties, then there is no copyr…

>Most software developed by government funds is developed, at least in part, by contractors. And that is a COMPLETELY different circumstance. The details, unsurprisingly, depend on the contract. // Isn't the point that the contact should have a non-negotiable OSS clause of it's using public funds. My impression, from my seat in Europe, is that USA government is run by rich capitalists that would as soon eat faeces li…

[deleted]

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#187

Post by maerF0x0 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #3

Also of concern is a tragedy of commons like issue where those who contributed no funding are able to get the software for free. For example if a piece of city focused software is FOSS and then a bunch of other cities choose to consume it but not contribute to the funding or code.

EDIT:

As many have pointed out I misused the term "Tragedy of commons" , when in fact it is "The Free Rider Problem"[1]

However the main point stands. Others will not invest in FOSS in hopes that someone else will first and they they can just consume for free.

[1]:" https://market.subwiki.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#188

Post by joshvm »

kerkeslager wrote: post #36

Most posts on this thread are focusing on exceptional cases where there are obvious reasons not to open the source, such as defense, but huge amounts of publicly-funded code is locked up for no reason whatsoever. Let's discuss some use cases that make more sense: 1. healthcare.gov 2. Stoplights/traffic control cameras. 3. Voting machines. 4. Electrical grid. 5. IRS.

Are all of these publicly funded?

There are companies (including Siemens, for example) which build traffic lights and sell the control software and algorithms for eg car and pedestrian detection. See https://www.speedcamerasuk.com/speed-camera-types.htm

In a lot of places, the government decides that a service is required and companies bid for the construction rights. Just because public money was used to buy a service doesn't make the IP the property of the public.

And in response to a sibling comment, no, the government does not always pay for code development. The company decides they have some niche IP (eg car detection) and start selling speed cameras. They then bid for government contracts.

You could argue that there is an onus on government to use open hardware and software where possible. It often costs them less money, for a start. I suspect its easier to run an open source focused company and aim to be a major government contractor than it is to persuade the government to buy open source.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#190

Post by throwawayjava »

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #164
lowercased wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having to switch CentOS servers over to RHEL servers because... support(?) Some state work got in trouble a few years back because they'd updated guidelines that no applications could be on the same machine as a database server. Enforced separation, for security. Having enough staff and management to distribute that message to people dealing with the apps and servers didn't seem to be a requirement, however. And.…

There's an infamous story at my shop. Twenty-some years ago, we used a software tool that was an important part of our mission, and it only ran on Silicon Graphics boxes. We needed to buy a new SGI machine, and SGI had started shipping all of their machines with built in monitor cameras, the first company to do so. Digital cameras were at that time strictly prohibited from even being on the premises. So my friend goe…

> They think for a minute and reply: “by policy, you cannot purchase a digital camera through the procurement office. Therefore, your computers do not have digital cameras in them.”

They were being intentionally daft. The person who told him that almost certainly did so with a wink and a nod, and saved your protagonist a lot of pain.

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