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Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

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Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#141

Post by grzm »

samplatt wrote: post #140
winrid wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the quality is much lower. The tractor is meant to be used near capacity for thousands of hours. Lada not so much. Lada is known to rust easily, John Deer is known for quality... Also, you are comparing two different spectrums. Maybe compare against very good farm equipment in Russia?

I'm seeing a lot of "John Deer == Quality" comments in this thread. My farming background says "John Deer == artificially (and insanely) expensive maintenance". I've always equated JD with just being one of the biggest players, not necessarily a reflection of good quality.

That said, we had no issues with the John Deere trackers we had. Same with IH, for that matter.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#142

Post by username_taco »

gamegoblin wrote: post #112
MrRadar wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Road legal" has a different standard in the US. To sell a car in the US it must have airbags, ABS, electronic stability control, a backup camera (also implying a decently-large full-color display on the dashboard), and it must meet USDOT, NHTSA, and EPA standards (each of which are slightly incompatible with standards from other regions, and intentionally so as a soft trade barrier). I'm guessing that the Lada 4x4 w…

FWIW if the car is >= 25 years old, most of these regulations go away. I have a 1990 Subaru Sambar pickup truck [1] imported from Japan that is street legal and registered in Washington state. It’s probably only a tiny bit safer than a motorcycle because it has seatbelts. Maybe cancelled out by the fact that I don’t wear a helmet while driving it. You can get them for $3K - 5K depending on condition and they are exce…

FWIW the >25year old rule is not true in California. Things are much more complicated here.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#143

Post by alkonaut »

I'd love a golf cart type car but the days I need it most it's -10C or -20C (Think around zero freedom degrees) and I don't trust these manufacturers to do the kind of winter testing I'm expecting. If any plastics give up, or battery thermals don't at least allow the same kind of range-fraction a Leaf or Model3 does in (really) cold weather, it's not going to work. Even my french petrol car is absolutely terrible in winter compared to a German or Swedish. Drive a few miles through slosh, leave the car out over night, then the brake calipers seize (No handbrake applied). My VW is excellent in comparison with a folding out rear view camera for example, that works even when ice covered (Tesla should take a note).

This is the problem with cars: you can't get one for just 3 seasons.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#144

Post by abrowne »

VectorLock wrote: post #85
ngngngng wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't get it. a John Deere Gator with two seats and 4 wheels, and not much else costs over $7000 new. No windows, No airbags, pathetic top speed, not road legal. A Lada 4x4 costs less than that brand new in Russia. Road legal, standard car top speed. Known as a very reliable car. Why can't I buy a really cheap car in the United States? edit: also the lada 4x4 is possibly the coolest car i've ever seen, in it's…

Whats the crash testing like on that Lada 4x4?

From Wikipedia:

In 2002 the Lada Niva was awarded zero stars out of a possible four by the modern Russian ARCAP safety assessment program.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#145

Post by dragonwriter »

gamegoblin wrote: post #112
MrRadar wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Road legal" has a different standard in the US. To sell a car in the US it must have airbags, ABS, electronic stability control, a backup camera (also implying a decently-large full-color display on the dashboard), and it must meet USDOT, NHTSA, and EPA standards (each of which are slightly incompatible with standards from other regions, and intentionally so as a soft trade barrier). I'm guessing that the Lada 4x4 w…

FWIW if the car is >= 25 years old, most of these regulations go away. I have a 1990 Subaru Sambar pickup truck [1] imported from Japan that is street legal and registered in Washington state. It’s probably only a tiny bit safer than a motorcycle because it has seatbelts. Maybe cancelled out by the fact that I don’t wear a helmet while driving it. You can get them for $3K - 5K depending on condition and they are exce…

> FWIW if the car is >= 25 years old, most of these regulations go away.

Most of those are only required to sell a new car; a car previously legally sold in the US (and maybe one sold after being legally imported by a consumer) doesn't need many of them, though it will have had to have met whichever were in place when it was first sold.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#146

Post by vbezhenar »

ngngngng wrote: post #81
dv_dt wrote: post #55

These seem like utility (landscaping) grade golf carts that are already a market in the US. Available in mostly gas, but some electric forms. https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/ https://www.toro.com/en/sports-fields-municipalities/utility... https://www.catresourcecenter.com/machine/landscaping/utilit...

I just don't get it. a John Deere Gator with two seats and 4 wheels, and not much else costs over $7000 new. No windows, No airbags, pathetic top speed, not road legal. A Lada 4x4 costs less than that brand new in Russia. Road legal, standard car top speed. Known as a very reliable car. Why can't I buy a really cheap car in the United States? edit: also the lada 4x4 is possibly the coolest car i've ever seen, in it's…

Lada 4x4 is an extremely outdated car. They are started to manufacture in 1977 and did not change much since then. Only engine was upgraded to conform to modern ecology standards. Crash test is terrible, it's probably worst car in the world in that aspect. Also it's extremely unreliable car.

That car makes sense in some areas of Russia (or similar countries). While it's unreliable, usually it's easy to repair and spare parts are very cheap, so for some people it's not a big problem. With its 4x4 drive, excellent geometry and low weight you can drive over very bad terrain and that's important in some rural areas in Russia. And of course it's dirt cheap, so for low income buyers it's much more practical choice than spend 5x money on some brand.

I have no idea about US, but honestly I don't think that many of those advantages would apply there. Also I've certainly saw those cars in US, you probably can find one in second hand market. It might be called Niva.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#147

Post by dmix »

akshatrathi wrote: post #39
zazen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these road-legal in the west? If the off-road farm and construction-site applications are the only use-cases, that would seem to rather limit the impact on the market.

They will be in the US, because there's supposed to be NHTSA-approved version. Given regulations in Europe, I assume that would be the case too. That means this version has some more safety features than the the base model in China, which could explain why it costs more than 3x outside China.

> which could explain why it costs more than 3x outside China.

Yeah, this has to be more than just western-market markup:

>> Kaiyun will start selling its “Pickman” electric pickup in the US, Germany, and Italy as soon as next month. The base Chinese model sells for 16,800 yuan ($2,500). The US version will start at $8,950, Fox News reports.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#148

Post by freehunter »

dsr_ wrote: post #97
freehunter wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question but do you need a lot in terms of crash protection if the top speed is 25mph? Theoretically you should only be in a collision at roughly 25mph (assuming you're sticking to roads where the speed limit is 25mph like you should be). It's certainly better crash protection than a pedestrian, a bicycle, a moped, or a Segway which seems to be the competition.

If you're on a 25mph road, you should assume a 50mph collision with a vehicle headed in the other direction.

Two cars of the same mass hitting each other head on at 25mph is the same as one car hitting a solid (immovable) wall at 25mph.

Regardless, a bicycle moving at 25mph being hit head on by a car moving 25mph is going to be (at best) comparable to this thing getting hit at 25mph.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#149

Post by MrRadar »

tptacek wrote: post #139
MrRadar wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Road legal" has a different standard in the US. To sell a car in the US it must have airbags, ABS, electronic stability control, a backup camera (also implying a decently-large full-color display on the dashboard), and it must meet USDOT, NHTSA, and EPA standards (each of which are slightly incompatible with standards from other regions, and intentionally so as a soft trade barrier). I'm guessing that the Lada 4x4 w…

TIL new cars sold in the US require backup cameras. Wow.

It's because there are so many trucks and SUVs which can completely obscure people (especially children) under 5 ft (~1.5 m) from their rear windows when they are too close to the vehicle because the vehicles are so high off the ground.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#150

Post by tptacek »

MrRadar wrote: post #149
tptacek wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL new cars sold in the US require backup cameras. Wow.

It's because there are so many trucks and SUVs which can completely obscure people (especially children) under 5 ft (~1.5 m) from their rear windows when they are too close to the vehicle because the vehicles are so high off the ground.

So this is required to sell new cars; it's not required to be street-legal, though, right? For instance: you can't sell a car in the US without both side-view mirrors, but you can drive a car without one of them.
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