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Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#11

Post by mikeryan »

throwaway_boy wrote: post #10
webwright wrote: post #3

You don't want to be a manager, but you want to move up from Senior Developer? Directors and CTOs generally are (largely) managers. A big part of their job is sales (selling product vision to the engineering team, selling engineering realities to executives, selling jobs to prospective hires, etc). Do you want that role? The organizational pyramid is just that. Not every senior dev moves up (or should move up if happ…

In my mind a manager is not necessarily a leader or the leader. And certainly not a technical leader. Agreed though that a director/CTO is more of a management position, but I've seen coding CTO's, especially in the startup world. I don't know what I want career-wise, vertically speaking, and that would be proprietary to every employer anyway. What I'm getting at is that I feel like I should be able to contribute mor…

I've pretty much only seen coding CTOs in the startup world (or small Go start a company if you want to grow. You sound skilled. Quit your job, start consulting and start a product on the side as a technical founder.

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#12

Post by ekidd »

The game industry uses the title "Lead Programmer", which I like. A lead programmer supervises "Senior Programmers."

This role combines architecture, project management, and some light management responsibilities for the team. You're still writing code, but you have overall responsibility for the technical parts of the project. It sounds like you've held this position at least once, and succeeded.

Beyond this point, you'll either need to move to organization with a full-fledged technical career ladder (and try for a title like "Distinguished Engineer" or "IBM Fellow"), or pick up more management skills and go for "CTO" or "VP of Engineering."

I'm learning management skills, and enjoying it: There are lots of problems which can only be solved by changing an organization as a whole, and not just by writing code. Even if that code is very sweet.

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#13

Post by throwaway_boy »

mikeryan wrote: post #5

So there's a slight cognitive dissonance here. Outside of an architect role - the only real way up is taking on more management tasks. A lot of larger companies are seeing this as an issue so they are adding gradients to what a SSE is (SSE 1, SSE 2 etc) but really the answer is you're going to have to move up via a team leadership role and this means more management and less engineering.

In the places I've worked that were large enough to actually have names and levels and whatnot, manager/non-manager was always a totally separate dimension from job level. You could easily have a level N engineer being managed by a level N-1 manager. A level N engineer becoming a manager produced a level N manager, it was not a promotion.

So I've never seen how becoming a manager means going "up."

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#14

Post by throwaway_boy »

apike wrote: post #4

In an organization that doesn't have a defined career path for engineers (which is to say, most organizations), you need to take responsibility for yourself if you want it. If you're on a team of engineers and nobody is leading, then step up. Help newer engineers learn skills, help interview people, help run meetings, and instigate new projects. Cook up a new product or feature, and champion it. If it goes well, you'…

You're right that more initiative will be required of me. In hindsight there were times when there was a vacuum and I could have done something (ultimately the vacuum always stayed there; noone stepped up as it would happen.) Lesson learned. Right now my company is extremely small and utterly flat (it's basically CO's and non-CO's), so there's no room to lead anything. This is really more about whatever I do next.

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#16

Post by throwaway_boy »

clark wrote: post #15

The alternative track is 'research scientist'. That's the title where you get to play on the company's dime. Unfortunately, it usually requires a PhD and have a strong publication history.

Yeah. That's way not me. Not really interested in playing, anyway. Would rather ensure that I work someplace that's run well so I can go home and play with a clear conscience.

Re: Ask HN: How do I crawl out of the "Senior Engineer" hole?

#17

Post by toast76 »

It's like reading an Ask HN from me. You sound like me about 3.5 years ago.

I was in the same situation, dev lead for 10 years. Bored. But I hated shuffling papers more than I hated being a drone...even if I was a senior drone.

What you need to do is start your own Startup.

What you're lacking in experience is only a problem if you need to actually manage people. You must likely have plenty of experience actually running a project... why not run your own project. Do consultancy on the side (even to your existing employer), but get out and do your own thing.

In time, you'll hire your first employee, then your second etc. There is far more career progression when you're growing a pyramid beneath you.

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