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Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

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Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#101

Post by MrRadar »

ngngngng wrote: post #81
dv_dt wrote: post #55

These seem like utility (landscaping) grade golf carts that are already a market in the US. Available in mostly gas, but some electric forms. https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/ https://www.toro.com/en/sports-fields-municipalities/utility... https://www.catresourcecenter.com/machine/landscaping/utilit...

I just don't get it. a John Deere Gator with two seats and 4 wheels, and not much else costs over $7000 new. No windows, No airbags, pathetic top speed, not road legal. A Lada 4x4 costs less than that brand new in Russia. Road legal, standard car top speed. Known as a very reliable car. Why can't I buy a really cheap car in the United States? edit: also the lada 4x4 is possibly the coolest car i've ever seen, in it's…

"Road legal" has a different standard in the US. To sell a car in the US it must have airbags, ABS, electronic stability control, a backup camera (also implying a decently-large full-color display on the dashboard), and it must meet USDOT, NHTSA, and EPA standards (each of which are slightly incompatible with standards from other regions, and intentionally so as a soft trade barrier). I'm guessing that the Lada 4x4 would be too close to a "real" car to be sold as a "not-car" offroad-only vehicle but would require too many changes to be sold cost-effectively as a "real" car in the US.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#103

Post by onetimemanytime »

ngngngng wrote: post #81
dv_dt wrote: post #55

These seem like utility (landscaping) grade golf carts that are already a market in the US. Available in mostly gas, but some electric forms. https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/ https://www.toro.com/en/sports-fields-municipalities/utility... https://www.catresourcecenter.com/machine/landscaping/utilit...

I just don't get it. a John Deere Gator with two seats and 4 wheels, and not much else costs over $7000 new. No windows, No airbags, pathetic top speed, not road legal. A Lada 4x4 costs less than that brand new in Russia. Road legal, standard car top speed. Known as a very reliable car. Why can't I buy a really cheap car in the United States? edit: also the lada 4x4 is possibly the coolest car i've ever seen, in it's…

>>A Lada 4x4 costs less than that brand new in Russia. Road legal, standard car top speed. Known as a very reliable car. Why can't I buy a really cheap car in the United States?

Average Russian's buying power vs US one. Plus, USA demands a lot more, and it can afford it. If your family dies in the car crash anyone from the tire to the glass maker will be sued.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#104

Post by stemc43 »

ngngngng wrote: post #89
VectorLock wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats the crash testing like on that Lada 4x4?

I don't know, I assume it's better than the more expensive open air golf cart that i'm comparing to though. edit: What i'm trying to say is, why is a fully functional car (even with bad crash safety and emissions) cheaper outside the United States than a golf cart is here? The answer seems obvious to me. Making it illegal to import cars has stifled competition and hurt consumers in the US.

politics. US car market is protectionist in nature.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#105

Post by howard941 »

kentosi wrote: post #66
howard941 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a relative sense, for me, yes. Small value for more than the price of a beaten-up Fiat 500.

By "beaten-up" I'm assuming you mean second-hand, in which case this is an unfair comparison. I'm sure that with time we'll have second-hand models of these tiny cars. The cost would definitely make it more tempting.

Fair enough. Compare it to a new golf cart. Those sell for $5-10K. http://www.costowl.com/b2b/golf-carts-new-cost.html

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#106

Post by rmcpherson »

seren wrote: post #62
matthewaveryusa wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These I'm not sure, but overall yes they can be street legal: The Renault Twizy -- I've seen them in France and in Cambridge, MA ( https://www.bonzer.rocks/ ) They're in use and cost ~10k. Last time I checked you can get a 25mpg and a 50mpg version. While the 25mpg versions are street legal and available now in the US market, I believe the 50mpg version is still only available in europe. https://www.renault.fr/vehicu…

The trick with Renault Twizy is that it is not registered as a proper car, but rather as some kind of motorcycle with a roof, so it does not have really stringent safety requirements.

Because it is not a motor vehicle by insurance and Legal standards in the USA it does not require a license or insurance to operate. If you are hit by one of these, you’ll find there’s no insurance to cover you other than your health insurance. Underinsured coverage on your auto policy will not apply either, as it would if you were hit by a motor vehicle. Source: this just happened to me.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#107

Post by Poiesis »

michaelt wrote: post #52
Poiesis wrote: post #33

At that price point I'd enthusiastically recommend a three year old Nissan Leaf; that's about what I paid and it's served me well.

Did you have to take over a battery lease, and if so how much will you be paying and for how long?

Like the other commenter, I've never heard of a battery lease. Just bought it outright.

For what it's worth I had the choice to pay a bit more to get a different Leaf that had a new battery (replacement under warranty). Given that I don't drive much (6 mile commute), I figured a slightly healthier battery is probably not going to be as useful to me, and the car/battery will deteriorate from age before mileage is as much a factor.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#108

Post by rmcpherson »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #70
nordsieck wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it's a good question whether they are making that profit at the cost of human lives (no crash protection) To the extent that the cars are replacing scooters, they are an unmitigated benefit, safety wise.

Not true. Going from cars to scooters is safety-positive for those passengers, and safety-negative for everyone outside that car, particularly those who are not themselves in a car.

Exactly. This just happened to me when I was struck by a moped in a near-fatal crash. Because it is not a motor vehicle by insurance and Legal standards in the USA it does not require a license or insurance to operate. If you are hit by one of these, you’ll find there’s no insurance to cover you other than your health insurance. Underinsured coverage on your auto policy will not apply either, as it would if you were hit by a motor vehicle.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#109

Post by Poiesis »

zellyn wrote: post #61

I work about six to eight miles from home (depending on the route) in Atlanta. I bike in as often as I can, but I would be all over a cheap electric alternative that was rain-proof. I don't see this as a car replacement so much as a bicycle alternative.

I commented earlier about buying a used Leaf instead of the car in the article. I just wanted to mention that it's a great bicycle alternative for me too. Used to bike to work before I had four kids going different places.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#110

Post by pcurve »

ngngngng wrote: post #81
dv_dt wrote: post #55

These seem like utility (landscaping) grade golf carts that are already a market in the US. Available in mostly gas, but some electric forms. https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/ https://www.toro.com/en/sports-fields-municipalities/utility... https://www.catresourcecenter.com/machine/landscaping/utilit...

I just don't get it. a John Deere Gator with two seats and 4 wheels, and not much else costs over $7000 new. No windows, No airbags, pathetic top speed, not road legal. A Lada 4x4 costs less than that brand new in Russia. Road legal, standard car top speed. Known as a very reliable car. Why can't I buy a really cheap car in the United States? edit: also the lada 4x4 is possibly the coolest car i've ever seen, in it's…

https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/

You're right about John Deere Gator being overpriced.

If mass produced, there's no reason why Chinese (or others) can't build something of comparable quality for $3k.

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