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If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

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Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#181
post #67
post #28

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlo…

Wow, I rarely so deeply profoundly and strongly disagree with a statement. I'm fascinated by both how far humans have come, and how peaceful we've become. We haven't had a major war for decades, despite having more and better weapons. Capitalism has unleashed a revolution in technology and society. We're improving lives more rapidly and profoundly than ever, despite there being more and more of us. There are long-ter…

For each of your statements, there is a dark and depressing counter statement.

For example:

> We haven't had a major war for decades, despite having more and better weapons: Yes the last twos big ones were so horrible and pyrrhic that it king of prevented other major conflicts, and it was before/right at the start of the nuclear age. BUT, with nuclear weapons, even if unlikely, only ONE instance of a major conflict will spell the end of most Human civilization. And with authoritarian governments emerging around the world (China, Eastern Europe, Turkey, China...) tensions, even if relatively low historically, are growing.

> Capitalism has unleashed a revolution in technology and society: Capitalism short term profit seeking and views is driving of the cliff in term of resource consumption. We could potentially have an Easter Island/Maya style collapse on a planetary scale withing a few generations.

> We're improving lives more rapidly and profoundly than ever: Except for the internet, I don't think our lives have fundamentally changes since the 80ies (at least in western countries, in China, India and a lot of countries, representing a huge mass of Humanity, things have improved lately, and it's a positive). All the technologies we are using are quite old at a macro level, it just took quite a while to reach the masses: planes are 100 years old, and are getting slower since the 60ies, wireless networks are nearly 100 years old (Marconi), Computers were first built in the 40ies, transistors (which enabled reliable and compact computers) dates back from the 50ies, vaccines are from the 19th century, antibiotics from the 20/30ies (the 2 most impact-full medical discoveries IMHO). And in term of energy, which is at the heart of all the material progress we have seen in the last two centuries, we are still relying on things discovered over a century ago (electrical engineering and petrol engines), nuclear which is more recent (60/70ies for the first commercial power plants) failed to deliver a huge improvement, and the next big step, able to unlock an order of magnitude more energy is still elusive (Fusion?), Solar/Wind and other renewable being less convenient energy sources barely able to maintain our current situation in a sustainable manner if deployed massively.

> There are long-term visions and movements springing up all across the world (ecological, environmental, etc) and they seem to be gaining steam: but these views are very slow to gain traction. The Kyoto Protocol was signed more than twenty years ago, and we are still at the same point. And it's not like global warming is a new thing, heck, even the first Civilization game (1991) had it as a game mechanic. This late acknowledgement might be too late to change anything.

> We're reaching for the stars, and it seems like we might actually get there eventually: we went to the moon 50 years ago, and we have not reach a new big milestone (ex: Mars) since.

I'm voluntarily bleak here, but this is to illustrate that a weird or depressed person like myself could not see things the same way as you are.

I do find fascinating how humans were able to work together, even looking at a (not so) simple building, there is no way one tiny human would be able to build it, yet, thanks to the collaboration of humans, it exists. And then you look at the next building, and the next, and then you have a city, interconnected with other cities with huge constructions like roads, tunnels, bridges and cables spanning hundreds of kilometers, all these interconnection constituting a worldwide mesh built and improved across several generations, it's truly amazing and dazzling.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#182

This was precisely my wife's symptoms when we were first married. She was angry nearly all the time. She could hold it together in public, but at home it was miserable. She would go a full day at a time, alternatively not speaking, stomping around and throwing things, and yelling. It took a long time for her to be correctly diagnosed. It wasn't clear to me that depression was the issue, because as discussed in the ar…

My wife put her foot down eventually and told me she wasn't going to be able to live with me any more after too many verbal angry outbursts. I received an ADHD diagnosis as a child but was never treated. I lived with the extreme anger all my life and only recently sought treatment as an adult. Doing that was really hard after a lifetime of people telling me it was simply a matter of adjusting my attitude and that I b…

Yes. If you break your leg, that's an injury, and you see a doctor. If you get pneumonia, you're sick and you need antibiotics.

But if your brain isn't working right that's a moral failure.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment aligns with an old HN comment that I have saved that resonated with me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16402387 I'd also recommend people feeling this way to read The Happiness Hypothesis by Jonathan Haidt. It helped me.

Thanks for sharing this comment. I do have a bit of trouble with the last paragraph. Am I understanding correctly that the author claims depression is neccessary for building a better model of the world? I'm sure depression has caused me to think about things and get a better understanding of them, but is it neccessary? What am I currently building a better model of?

When I had depression, I stared into the wall tired of everything. Everything was pointless and everybody annoying. Just about only thing I understood better was depressive state itself.

It ended when I got healthy and the only inside I have is more understanding for depressive people.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#184
post #37
post #28

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlo…

Agreed. The average human is illogical. It's not easy for Vulcans to live among Ferengies. I don't claim to be "mostly right", but I do claim to use and be able to produce a logical train of thought for recommending courses of actions. I can write it out in detail if and when requested. However, few are really interested in a logical justification: they usually use office politics and their "gut" to decide. Sorry, bu…

Fellow martian here. You may get some satisfaction from reading Khaneman's "Thinking Fast & Slow". Most everyone is BSing themselves. As to the 'why?', Sagan's "Demon Haunted World" lays it out pretty succinctly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#185
post #28

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlo…

>Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. Water takes the path of least resistance, Humans take the path of least expected effort expenditure to accomplish their desires Both are just doing as nature does, being themselves. Why be sad that every person will do the least amount of work to satisfy their desires, when it is an inevitability, but your sadness is not.

Water doesn't have the capacity for cruelty.

The world is also a much nicer place to live for everyone when people behave in pro-social ways, whether or not that is our nature.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#186
post #171
post #28

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlo…

I read this a few days ago, it might resonate with you, despite it seeming like spiritual jargon: https://prashantadvait.tumblr.com/post/180867077354/without-... The main highlight, I think, is this: > The world is not the cause of misery, our perception of the world is. What we think of the world is the cause of misery.

"our perception of the world is"

When: wanting it to be different than it is.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#187
post #28

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlo…

> The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. The problem is that you can't say that today -- depression has to be all about BS "chemical imbalances", and never about the sorry state of the world and/or people's personal affairs. Even something as simple as artificial light or enforced working hours, and commutes are nothing like people have evolved fo…

FWIW mild happiness, a six or seven on a scale of ten, seems to be the default human condition whether they live in a palace or a mud hut. So it's not hard to imagine something unusual might be going on if you personally report a two out of ten.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#188
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I rarely so deeply profoundly and strongly disagree with a statement. I'm fascinated by both how far humans have come, and how peaceful we've become. We haven't had a major war for decades, despite having more and better weapons. Capitalism has unleashed a revolution in technology and society. We're improving lives more rapidly and profoundly than ever, despite there being more and more of us. There are long-ter…

> I'm fascinated by both how far humans have come, and how peaceful we've become. If you told an ancient human about, say, genocide, do you think they even be capable of reactions as cold as, say, these: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18102401 ? We live in a world were wars of aggression are still sanctified, and phrases like "fun sized terrorist" are still invented. Playing nice with murderers is not peaceful,…

You mean the same ancient humans that forced their slaves to become gladiators so that their populations could fill their lust for blood, the same ancient humans that viciously persecuted those who refused to worship their emperor as a god, the same ancient humans that would capture religious minorities, cover them in oil, and line them up along the roads to burn?

Humans both ancient and modern are not peaceful creatures, the only thing that has changed is our technology for killing each other.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife put her foot down eventually and told me she wasn't going to be able to live with me any more after too many verbal angry outbursts. I received an ADHD diagnosis as a child but was never treated. I lived with the extreme anger all my life and only recently sought treatment as an adult. Doing that was really hard after a lifetime of people telling me it was simply a matter of adjusting my attitude and that I b…

Yes. If you break your leg, that's an injury, and you see a doctor. If you get pneumonia, you're sick and you need antibiotics. But if your brain isn't working right that's a moral failure.

Maybe we just need to reframe it a bit. If you have strep and you don't get help & take care of it, that's a moral failure (you'll get other people sick). If you have mental illness and you don't get help & take care of it, that's the moral failure.
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