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If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

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Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#61

Post by PurpleBoxDragon »

ganoushoreilly wrote: post #39
vanderZwan wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, electronic voting. Not that electronic voting booths will ever be a good idea, but forcing them to open source their stuff will hopefully deter people from even trying (and if not it will make it even more blatantly visible that these things are terrible). It's just like the biggest argument for open source in science: it is required for proper accountability.

Most of the code in electronic voting is owned by the vendors though so by the same standard would we have to open source any 3rd party software the govt aquires?

I think it would have to be a requirement of any money the government spends on code. Otherwise, they will easily defeat the requirement to make it public by passing it through a private company.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#64

Post by staplers »

jamessantiago wrote: post #50

At the very least publically funded code should be open between government departments. There seems to be a lot of internally developed work that is unnecessarily replicated or lost just due to having no obligation or available resources to share or collaborate. Maybe there needs to be some system in place to have some sort of internal NDA or need to know check, but this seems like a good first step.

You're assuming government code even uses proper documentation or version control..

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#65

Post by newnewpdro »

I'm in favor of the transparency this would confer, but it's probably not in our best national interests to be potentially giving away state of the art software for running large governments.

The code is of minimal utility to individual citizens who have no need to run large governments, but can be hugely beneficial to our competing nations.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#66

Post by vanderZwan »

ganoushoreilly wrote: post #39
vanderZwan wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, electronic voting. Not that electronic voting booths will ever be a good idea, but forcing them to open source their stuff will hopefully deter people from even trying (and if not it will make it even more blatantly visible that these things are terrible). It's just like the biggest argument for open source in science: it is required for proper accountability.

Most of the code in electronic voting is owned by the vendors though so by the same standard would we have to open source any 3rd party software the govt aquires?

I don't quite follow your line of thinking here:

- currently most electronic voting software is owned by the vendors

- electronic voting should really not be trusted, period, but definitely not be allowed to be closed source

- therefore, we should ban any electronic voting software not made on open source software (arguably even hardware)

- therefore, I am implying vendors of electronic voting software should only be allowed to use a fully open source software stack in their final product

I do not see the jump from this reasoning to any software used by the government must be open source (if I understand you correctly).

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#67

Post by Sean-Der »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #59
kerkeslager wrote: post #36

Most posts on this thread are focusing on exceptional cases where there are obvious reasons not to open the source, such as defense, but huge amounts of publicly-funded code is locked up for no reason whatsoever. Let's discuss some use cases that make more sense: 1. healthcare.gov 2. Stoplights/traffic control cameras. 3. Voting machines. 4. Electrical grid. 5. IRS.

There is more than one country in the world. Let's say country A is paying for some software and open source it, the rest of the world can get it. That may be fair if everyone is doing the same and contributing fairly (hard to assess that), but if countries A,B,C are the only ones contributing (paying) and everyone else just use, then it is not fair or sensible. More than that, there is no "public paid", just "tax pa…

Country A isn't losing anything by allowing others to use it. Even if no one contributes back developers can spend that time doing other valuable work, rather then re-invent the wheel in every country around the world.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#68

Post by [deleted] »

arcaster wrote: post #45
moosey wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we could just stop making weapons software? I mean, someone needs to go first. When I look at wars throughout the world, a huge number of them are fought with US weapons, and we don't actually have a good track record of supporting peaceful people. I don't think that we'll get there until we stop dumping weapons on the world for profit.

Of course this would be great, we'd all like this to happen. But your perspective is dangerously shallow and juvenile, the real world just straight up doesn't work this way. If you believe in this enough, you're better off leaving the U.S. IMHO. If you disagree, I recommend visiting a country on the verge of complete collapse. Do that, then think about how good we have it, think about how many people want to take tha…

[deleted]

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#69

Post by rtkwe »

dragontamer wrote: post #46
kerkeslager wrote: post #36

Most posts on this thread are focusing on exceptional cases where there are obvious reasons not to open the source, such as defense, but huge amounts of publicly-funded code is locked up for no reason whatsoever. Let's discuss some use cases that make more sense: 1. healthcare.gov 2. Stoplights/traffic control cameras. 3. Voting machines. 4. Electrical grid. 5. IRS.

1. https://www.healthcare.gov/developers/ 2, 3, and 4 are made by private companies. Not government. 5. Probably a good idea.

> 5. Probably a good idea.

You probably wouldn't want their fraud detection/audit selection software published. No matter how good it is releasing it gives people a chance to better avoid detection.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#70

Post by c22 »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #41
c22 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument against is that we might get bored reading the open source code?

While it is bad way to put it, but GP comments does make a little sense. All I can think of government software is CRUD apps or research projects. The source of later is released on case by case basis(tor, selinux on one hand, exploits such as stuxnet on the other) and any ruling won't help much there.

But why shouldn't CRUD apps be open sourced? Is the assertion that they stand to reap no benefit because no one will contribute to them? I don't think I agree with this position. Nor do I feel that contributions are the only forseeable benefit of open source software.
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