If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source • Hacker News Board

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#21

Post by c22 » Mon, Feb 04, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

uberman wrote: post #14

Would this not imply that if "my" government funded some software that "your" government would be free to take it? I'm not sure I'm keen on subsidizing "your" government all that much. What would stop the people of/under "your" government from freeloading off the people of/under "my" government?

If "your" government needs and uses the software then what have "you" lost?

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#22

Post by eberkund » Mon, Feb 04, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #3

Also of concern is a tragedy of commons like issue where those who contributed no funding are able to get the software for free. For example if a piece of city focused software is FOSS and then a bunch of other cities choose to consume it but not contribute to the funding or code.

That's possible, however the idea is that the net outcome would be positive. Say city A open sources some useful software that city B, C and D freely copy and do not contribute anything back. No harm is done to city A open sourcing the software they would have needed anyways. Then city E starts using the software and needs some additional functionality so they use the budget they would have otherwise used to re-implement their own proprietary version of the software to contribute back their enhancement to city A's project.

Sure some cities will not contribute back but in open source it is the organizations most in need and most able to contribute back who do. Why is that a problem?

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#23

Post by stronglikedan » Mon, Feb 04, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

ecshafer wrote: post #5

I am an open source advocate, but I don't really agree here. Should the IRS, NSA, CIA, and FBI code all be open source? Here are some cases where closed source software, with some security by obscurity could be helpful. Another example would be some software around designing nuclear systems. But as an example maybe a software funded by the national weather service to run simulations, that aught to be open source (per…

> Should the IRS, NSA, CIA, and FBI code all be open source?

I'm leaning toward "yes", but that doesn't mean the data (including encryption/decryption keys) should be publicly available.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#24

Post by stupeo » Mon, Feb 04, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

This make sense for some public sources, obviously not all (such as defense).

As it happens, this is exactly what we do at http://interneuron.org for Healthcare software. Most of our revenue so far has been NHS organisations. We are also a CIC - so a not for profit.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#25

Post by arthurjj » Mon, Feb 04, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #3

Also of concern is a tragedy of commons like issue where those who contributed no funding are able to get the software for free. For example if a piece of city focused software is FOSS and then a bunch of other cities choose to consume it but not contribute to the funding or code.

Agreed the other cities are being a jerk but not exactly a tragedy of the commons [1] as OSS is not a rival good [2]. One city using the software does not prevent others from using it.

[1] https://market.subwiki.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons [2] https://market.subwiki.org/wiki/Rival_good

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#26

Post by c22 » Mon, Feb 04, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

rb808 wrote: post #13

The other point that there are millions of boring crud apps written out there in govt/contractor land. We dont need to see these as open source, its not as if there are lots of devs that love fixing crappy crud apps in their spare time.

Your argument against is that we might get bored reading the open source code?

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#27

Post by cosinetau » Mon, Feb 04, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

ecshafer wrote: post #5

I am an open source advocate, but I don't really agree here. Should the IRS, NSA, CIA, and FBI code all be open source? Here are some cases where closed source software, with some security by obscurity could be helpful. Another example would be some software around designing nuclear systems. But as an example maybe a software funded by the national weather service to run simulations, that aught to be open source (per…

They will definitely want to consider extraordinary projects, materials, and infrastructure as munitions.

But they also have existing, good relationships with academics in other engineering fields where those regulated materials can still be accessed.

Maybe Wide-Open Source isn't the right answer for all projects because of the understood risks, but because they already have a good set of SOP for a similar program, perhaps it's time to ask them if they could expand that program's scope and loosen their grip on those things a little.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#28

Post by rplst8 » Mon, Feb 04, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

ecshafer wrote: post #5

I am an open source advocate, but I don't really agree here. Should the IRS, NSA, CIA, and FBI code all be open source? Here are some cases where closed source software, with some security by obscurity could be helpful. Another example would be some software around designing nuclear systems. But as an example maybe a software funded by the national weather service to run simulations, that aught to be open source (per…

Security through "obscurity" is not security at all.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#29

Post by vanderZwan » Mon, Feb 04, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #16

ecshafer wrote: post #5

I am an open source advocate, but I don't really agree here. Should the IRS, NSA, CIA, and FBI code all be open source? Here are some cases where closed source software, with some security by obscurity could be helpful. Another example would be some software around designing nuclear systems. But as an example maybe a software funded by the national weather service to run simulations, that aught to be open source (per…

> Should the IRS, NSA, CIA, and FBI code all be open source? Yes. Open source, but secret/classified (as necessary, IRS software should be open-source, period). This way the software will be a useful learning/historical resource when it's declassified in the future.

Also, electronic voting. Not that electronic voting booths will ever be a good idea, but forcing them to open source their stuff will hopefully deter people from even trying (and if not it will make it even more blatantly visible that these things are terrible).

It's just like the biggest argument for open source in science: it is required for proper accountability.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#30

Post by c22 » Mon, Feb 04, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #3

Also of concern is a tragedy of commons like issue where those who contributed no funding are able to get the software for free. For example if a piece of city focused software is FOSS and then a bunch of other cities choose to consume it but not contribute to the funding or code.

This sounds like a synergy of the commons.