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If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

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Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#111
post #28

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlo…

Every day I see people behaving in shitty ways, not giving any consideration for the people around them or the place that they live. It's like the tragedy of the commons pervades every public space in a city. Nobody feels ownership, nobody cares, nobody feels responsibility for their actions.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#112
post #40
post #28

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlo…

I used to think like this. Then I read "12 Rules for Life" by Jordan Peterson and "Daring Greatly" by Brene Brown a few times, and I realized I was making an implicit choice to see the world that way, and that it is a completely counter productive viewpoint. A shift in perspective can change everything.

Didn't downvote you, but while I've heard similar recommendations before, that's not a reasonable response to existential depression.

On the one hand, you're correct, one's outlook on the world does impact your mood. Humans are emotional and easily confused, and shifting your viewpoint can change your mood in powerful ways. Perhaps those books present a position from which to view the world that's useful in lifting one's mood, which shifts your attention away from things which are depressing and towards things which are uplifting.

On the other, if there are genuine facts which are important and which cause me to be depressed, it is important to me in my core values to believe those things to be true, neither blinding myself to their existence nor incorrectly believing them to be false. Changing a viewpoint will not cause those inconvenient facts to become false: They exist, they cause depression, I am aware of them, hence I am depressed.

I am willing to add facts to my worldview which are uplifting and counterbalance the depressing ones. I am willing to adjust priorities and weigh the importance of the depressing ones less and the uplifting ones more, in proportion to the degree that they are or are not important.

I might be willing to cheat a small amount, and allow myself to lean my viewpoint slightly to the happy side of the correct position if that position is more productive, but there's a fairly low limit to the self-deception I can tolerate, even if it causes me to be depressed.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#113
post #28

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlo…

>The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong.

The problem is that you can't say that today -- depression has to be all about BS "chemical imbalances", and never about the sorry state of the world and/or people's personal affairs.

Even something as simple as artificial light or enforced working hours, and commutes are nothing like people have evolved for millennia to live with -- even less so screens, sedentary work, constant barrage of psychological manipulation through ads and tv and social media, and so on. Add to that all kinds of crazy rules we impose to our lives, and societal pressures unheard of in older times (where the main concerns if you've made it to adulthood were mostly getting by with enough food), and its a wonder not everybody is depressed.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#114
post #37
post #28

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlo…

Agreed. The average human is illogical. It's not easy for Vulcans to live among Ferengies. I don't claim to be "mostly right", but I do claim to use and be able to produce a logical train of thought for recommending courses of actions. I can write it out in detail if and when requested. However, few are really interested in a logical justification: they usually use office politics and their "gut" to decide. Sorry, bu…

You think others are being illogical when they make decisions that don’t appear logical to you. However a more logical conclusion is that others are acting in a logical way and you lack all the information they have about the decision.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#115
post #28

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlo…

People do good things and bad things. If in the presence of a combination of good things and bad things, you focus on the bad things and the bad things dominate your subjective experience of existence, you are probably suffering from depression.

Or, you know, not all periods have a balance of "good things and bad things".

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#116
post #78

I'm not sure they're right. As a man at least when you get to a certain age you lose the filter. I saw it in my dad and now I see it in myself. When you're younger bosses might BS you but you don't know it. When you get older you know it but feel helpless in doing anything about it. You reach a certain age and you call people on it. That might be one reason in tech that they don't want older employees. Being freer is…

One of the best things I've noticed about aging is no longer caring what other people think. Some of this is due to having built some financial security, but I believe there is more to it than that.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#117
post #26

I have had to deal with inexplicable anger and irritability for a long time. It is possible this traces back to being misdiagnosed and prescribed 5 antibiotic recipes back-to-back as a child. Long and tedious story short, when I cut milk, gluten/short carbs/whatever pesticide they use for wheat, and excess sugar from e.g. prefabbed food from my diet I gained 10kg and my life basically turned around. Turns out having…

mental health and gut bacteria seem to be heavily correlated. Anecdotally, if I don't eat sugary "reward" food I tend to feel better. That is also why I adopted intermittent fasting. I tend to fell better mentally if I fast 24h once a week.

This can be a vicious cycle, and one which I'm actively struggling to break. I feel terrible because I eat junk food, and I eat junk food because I feel terrible. "Just stop eating junk food" is easier said than done in this case, unfortunately :|

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#118
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think like this. Then I read "12 Rules for Life" by Jordan Peterson and "Daring Greatly" by Brene Brown a few times, and I realized I was making an implicit choice to see the world that way, and that it is a completely counter productive viewpoint. A shift in perspective can change everything.

I think smaddox makes a good point, I don't get the downvotes. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/9eaqqt/what_we_ca... "The first is that some things are within our control and some are not, and that much of our unhappiness is caused by thinking that we can control things that, in fact, we can’t." You choose to change your mental 'model' and re-frame your perspective (not to be confused with burying your head…

Downvotes are probably related to Jordan Peterson

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#119
post #26

I have had to deal with inexplicable anger and irritability for a long time. It is possible this traces back to being misdiagnosed and prescribed 5 antibiotic recipes back-to-back as a child. Long and tedious story short, when I cut milk, gluten/short carbs/whatever pesticide they use for wheat, and excess sugar from e.g. prefabbed food from my diet I gained 10kg and my life basically turned around. Turns out having…

mental health and gut bacteria seem to be heavily correlated. Anecdotally, if I don't eat sugary "reward" food I tend to feel better. That is also why I adopted intermittent fasting. I tend to fell better mentally if I fast 24h once a week.

How exactly do you fast? Is it like the extreme fasting of muslims where you don't eat or drink anything from dawn to dusk, or is it like the hindu fasting where you only eat fruits and vegetables?

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#120
post #93
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live in the US? That's probably a big part of the problem. Everything in the US is doom and gloom, and everyone in the US is horribly paranoid. People are constantly paranoid about someone attacking them, and kids aren't allowed to run around outside because "someone might kidnap them". People that do get a visit from the police and CPS for "child abandonment". If you're planning to have kids, doing it in the…

What "US" are you talking about? There are 50 states, all of whom have very different attitudes and values, and within those are thousands of counties, cities, towns, and unincorporated areas where nothing you wrote applies.

Different when they consider one another, but not so different to an outsider that has seen places.
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