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Let Children Get Bored Again

nytimes.com

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Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#131

Post by agumonkey »

clubm8 wrote: post #48
csmeder wrote: post #41

There are two separate issues: A. 1,000 ft view: drugs are bad. Both chemical drugs and electronic entertainment that is engineered to be addictive. Light weight drugs in small doses are less bad: 90s vs now. B. 50,000 ft view: the real problem. When rats are put in normal laboratory settings they choose drugs over food and water if given the choice. Most of our research on addiction is based on this. In a study wher…

Personally I think the issue is, and I struggled for a long time to articulate this... escape. I have always struggled with a cluster of issues... too much tv, too much internet, for a period in college binge drinking, overeating... the big "aha!" was that I was engaging in these behaviors to escape reality. We live in a unique time where if you don't like the reality you're in, you can step into another. Society has…

Society has been slowly but surely working at decoupling everything. Every problem gets a ~solution. You don't need to depend on people directly, it's easier than having to deal with them. You don't have to deal with physics, put VR goggles and enjoy unlimited retries at shooting preys.

I think it's a bit sad.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#132

Post by kakarot »

csmeder wrote: post #41

There are two separate issues: A. 1,000 ft view: drugs are bad. Both chemical drugs and electronic entertainment that is engineered to be addictive. Light weight drugs in small doses are less bad: 90s vs now. B. 50,000 ft view: the real problem. When rats are put in normal laboratory settings they choose drugs over food and water if given the choice. Most of our research on addiction is based on this. In a study wher…

> When rats are put in normal laboratory settings they choose drugs over food and water if given the choice.

We've shown that cocaine addiction can be mitigated or altogether avoided by enough positive social interaction.

When the benefits that cocaine would provide to the dopamine system are already present from other external sources, the rat is much less likely to self-administrate cocaine to "self-medicate", and this is likely further modulated by if medicating inhibits the rat's ability to continue getting dopamine from other sources.

It's clear that psychosocial health is a huge factor in avoiding addiction.

Another huge factor more relevant to today's era is post-capitalist existentialism, which we can't really test with lab rats but I'll be damned if it doesn't make me want to erode away inside a warm fuzzy ball of artificial pleasure sometimes.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-018-0246-6

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#133

Post by cortesoft »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #71
cortesoft wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on the type of game you play. There are a TON of open ended 'sand box' type games that don't do any of those things (City Builders, MineCraft, Factorio, etc).

There's also even more "tons" of games that do them.

Sure, which is why my point was that you can't treat all video games as the same.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#134

Post by anonu »

abootstrapper wrote: post #79
anonu wrote: post #65

I disagree with the premise of the article and its conclusions to let kids get bored. Boredom is plain evil. It is not something that should be sought out. Rather, it is a symptom of unpreparedness or parents not stoking inherent creativity in their kids. As a kid, I rarely left home without a book. That habit still exists today. If I was "bored" or had some idle time, I had something to keep me entertained. On long…

Don’t you think the kid should be learning to cure boredom themselves? If you always tie your kids shoes, how will they learn to tie their own shoes? Likewise, if you always provide entertainment, how will they learn to entertain themselves?

We're on the same page.

Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish.

What I am suggesting is parents role is to teach kids to entertain themselves. Not by showing them how to turn on YouTube. But by guiding them to more "active" forms of entertainment like books, board games, running around outside, etc...

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#135

Post by Apocryphon »

agumonkey wrote: post #127
nitrogen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Books were an escape vehicle before TV, movies, and games.

Books are so low on addiction and very high on interesting stimuli. for some reason, solid matter full of glyphs in our hands captivate the mind differently than other medium / formats. I tried a lot of things, every time I get a book I feel different and most importantly better. Coming from a not avid reader. #2cents

Do reading books on e-readers, tablets, and phones have the same effect? How about static websites with long-form text?

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#136

Post by magpi3 »

nitrogen wrote: post #51
clubm8 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think the issue is, and I struggled for a long time to articulate this... escape. I have always struggled with a cluster of issues... too much tv, too much internet, for a period in college binge drinking, overeating... the big "aha!" was that I was engaging in these behaviors to escape reality. We live in a unique time where if you don't like the reality you're in, you can step into another. Society has…

Books were an escape vehicle before TV, movies, and games.

As was poetry. All storytelling can be viewed as an escape. But it can also be viewed as a powerful way to reimagine the world.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#137

Post by JauntyHatAngle »

dkersten wrote: post #75
leetcrew wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is the common argument, but I'm not entirely convinced. when I was a kid, the graphics were quite primitive by today's standards, but playing the games at that age felt like stepping into a vivid other world. playing as an adult, I just see a bunch of geometry with shitty lighting while I run around clicking on HP sponges. I wouldn't say that video games are quite as stimulating as reading a good book, bu…

And how we used to think whatever the latest in graphics was, was oh so realistic and amazing! I played MUD’s for a few years when I was younger and in hindsight it was amazing: while the writing wasn’t typically as good as a book, you still filled in the world and characters with your imagination and it was both interactive and social. I still have some vivid memories of it that are as clear as if it had been a mode…

It's interesting, but I think games have taken a significant backstep over the past few years in terms of RPG's in many ways.

The issue for me nowadays is that AAA studios seem to demand certain things. One of which, is fully voiced dialogue.

This sounds good, people talking lines to me is great right? But the problem is, each of those lines costs time and money, and adds rigidity around what can be changed as you need to get voice actors in and pay money, take time to record the lines, sequence the lips, etc. etc.

Having a purely text based experience (see the character, but have the conversation be purely in text) allows for better variability, imagination on your behalf and way more dialogue because they aren't constrained by time and money as much.

I can't remember who said it, but It puts me in mind of the concept that sometimes the most creative things happen when given the least tools to work with - if you give an artist all the tools to work with in the world, they can often find it harder to focus. Give constraints and creativity is given bounds and scope to work with. It's a bit counter-intuitive but I really think it can be true.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#138

Post by usaphp »

sl1ck731 wrote: post #93

When my family went through hard times in High School our internet was cut. Basically every interest I had was pulled out from under me (gaming). I ended up going to the local library during this time after months of crushing boredom and reading a lot of books like the CompTIA Linux, CEH, random programming books. I always wonder what I would be like if I didn't go through this phase at such a crucial time. It refocu…

> I ended up going to the local library during this time after months of crushing boredom and reading a lot of books like the CompTIA Linux, CEH, random programming books

It's only happened because you were that type of person, I know a lot more high school students who went robbing cars and drinking because of their boredom, not going to libraries to read programming books.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#139

Post by abootstrapper »

Nasrudith wrote: post #107
abootstrapper wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you think the kid should be learning to cure boredom themselves? If you always tie your kids shoes, how will they learn to tie their own shoes? Likewise, if you always provide entertainment, how will they learn to entertain themselves?

That is why you need to teach them how to do something. If kids are expected to know something teach them it.

Of course. Part of teaching is allowing them to struggle with the problem. Show them how, do it together, let them do it and help, let them do it with encouragement, finally let them do it alone. In the last two steps you must allow them to struggle and make their own mistakes.

By the time a kid knows the meaning of the word boredom, they know plenty of methods to cure it. They just need to be allowed to struggle with the problem and solve it themselves.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#140

Post by JauntyHatAngle »

vharuck wrote: post #88

This subject is prone to so many reasoning traps. - The "problem" is with the current generation of children, so their future character is pure speculation. - The media consumed is seen as new. This means people believe (rightly or wrongly) it affects children very differently. Paradoxically, these same people claim to know how it affects them, despite it being new. - People are tempted to argue using childhood memor…

While I agree with you in principle, there are flaws with what you are saying in my opinion.

We can't wait for a generation to have issues before we start attempting to fix big issues- yes they may be perceived and not present, but we can only do the best we can do, there are good reasons to think it is not healthy to never feel boredom, based on our own intuitive understanding of people so we make choices the best we can.

It might be the wrong choice, but it's still our best one.

Disciplined experiments would only bear out after 15 years or more so it's a bit late to wait for that. We do what we can and refine our thoughts and ideas until we do have the data, because this is an active "problem" that will have data whether we like it or not, so do the best we can now and we'll find out if we were right later.

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