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How transportation can transform a city – Seattle's double decker tunnel

washingtonpost.com

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Re: How transportation can transform a city – Seattle's double decker tunnel

#31

Post by rakenodiax »

jlj wrote: post #17

The new tunnel is a downtown bypass route. The viaduct had a couple downtown exits, but the tunnel starts by the stadiums South of downtown, and ends by South Lake Union, with no downtown exits. All of the into-downtown traffic will be pushed to surface streets. Tunnel tolling will kick in soon too. The viaduct had no tolling. The city is pushing a one-time tax bill called a "local improvement district" to property o…

Not to mention the massive cost, the overruns to said cost, the construction delays...

Re: How transportation can transform a city – Seattle's double decker tunnel

#32

Post by meddlepal »

peatmoss wrote: post #3

“Celebrated replacement”? I mean, I just walked through the new tunnel for it’s public opening as a curiosity, but I’m not sure it’s celebrated per se. Don’t get me wrong, I am delighted to see the viaduct go, but I’m not sure the replacement is needed, or really a replacement. I also think that they’re essentially building a surface level highway along the waterfront, which to me diminishes what could have been a tr…

Seattle's waterfront is a bit different from Boston's but the Big Dig which was a much more complicated predecessor of this project was well worth it. I have been very critical of the Rose Kennedy Greenway for a variety of reasons but it is so much better than the hulking monster that was the Central Artery.

Re: How transportation can transform a city – Seattle's double decker tunnel

#33

Post by jaggederest »

m741 wrote: post #18
jaggederest wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portland also entirely replaced our waterfront highway with an enormous park, probably not the precedent you're looking for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbor_Drive

Out of curiosity, why is this not a good precedent? Were the results bad, or because it's Portland?

Not a good precedent as far as "We can't remove this road entirely". Road entirely removed, everyone was happy.

Re: How transportation can transform a city – Seattle's double decker tunnel

#34

Post by jakewalker »

rakenodiax wrote: post #31
jlj wrote: post #17

The new tunnel is a downtown bypass route. The viaduct had a couple downtown exits, but the tunnel starts by the stadiums South of downtown, and ends by South Lake Union, with no downtown exits. All of the into-downtown traffic will be pushed to surface streets. Tunnel tolling will kick in soon too. The viaduct had no tolling. The city is pushing a one-time tax bill called a "local improvement district" to property o…

Not to mention the massive cost, the overruns to said cost, the construction delays...

The Big Dig in Boston was full of the same overruns, delays, and even corruption. All worth it.

It's the best thing the city has ever done, far and away. Fundamentally changed the city and is responsible for incalculable property value and quality of life improvements in the city.

Re: How transportation can transform a city – Seattle's double decker tunnel

#35

Post by masonic »

jakewalker wrote: post #34
rakenodiax wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the massive cost, the overruns to said cost, the construction delays...

The Big Dig in Boston was full of the same overruns, delays, and even corruption. All worth it. It's the best thing the city has ever done, far and away. Fundamentally changed the city and is responsible for incalculable property value and quality of life improvements in the city.

Worth it for Boston, sure. But the rest of the U.S. paid almost all of the massive cost.

Re: How transportation can transform a city – Seattle's double decker tunnel

#36

Post by patja »

Biggest tunnel boring machine ever and we end up with a tunnel that has the same number of traffic lanes as the old. Progress!

It does have improvements such as a small provision for emergency vehicles to squeeze by or pulling a disabled vehicle out of the way, and hopefully it is resilient to quakes. Still... Lot of expense for the same 4 lanes.

Re: How transportation can transform a city – Seattle's double decker tunnel

#37

Post by obmelvin »

patja wrote: post #36

Biggest tunnel boring machine ever and we end up with a tunnel that has the same number of traffic lanes as the old. Progress! It does have improvements such as a small provision for emergency vehicles to squeeze by or pulling a disabled vehicle out of the way, and hopefully it is resilient to quakes. Still... Lot of expense for the same 4 lanes.

I don't know enough about this particular project to say much, but if you Google there are plenty of traffic studies showing that more lanes generally makes traffic worse, not better.

Re: How transportation can transform a city – Seattle's double decker tunnel

#38

Post by Steltek »

masonic wrote: post #35
jakewalker wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Big Dig in Boston was full of the same overruns, delays, and even corruption. All worth it. It's the best thing the city has ever done, far and away. Fundamentally changed the city and is responsible for incalculable property value and quality of life improvements in the city.

Worth it for Boston, sure. But the rest of the U.S. paid almost all of the massive cost.

Massachusetts paid for many of it's own interstates before sick a system existed. You could see that in the old Central Artery being way out of compliance with standards. A compelling argument was that other states had their modern highways paid for them by the Federal government long ago while Massachusetts had done it themselves even before then.

Re: How transportation can transform a city – Seattle's double decker tunnel

#39

Post by moonka »

munificent wrote: post #10

There was an 8k run today along the new tunnel and the soon-to-be-destroyed Viaduct. Aside from being insanely packed, it was a really cool experience getting to see the Viaduct one last time on foot and getting to see the tunnel while it's still shiny and new.

This morning was a bike ride that did the same. It was completely awesome. 12,000 bikes tearing through it. One of the best organized rides I've done.

Re: How transportation can transform a city – Seattle's double decker tunnel

#40

Post by masonic »

Steltek wrote: post #38
masonic wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth it for Boston, sure. But the rest of the U.S. paid almost all of the massive cost.

Massachusetts paid for many of it's own interstates before sick a system existed. You could see that in the old Central Artery being way out of compliance with standards. A compelling argument was that other states had their modern highways paid for them by the Federal government long ago while Massachusetts had done it themselves even before then.

I was referring specifically to the Big Dig, as was the parent comment.
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