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Let Children Get Bored Again

nytimes.com

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Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#71

Post by PavlovsCat »

cortesoft wrote: post #58
joe_the_user wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? - Why? Because a video game move forward at it's speed, setting, since it keeps things going regardless, it's own agenda. A book only moves forward at the speed of a child's own thinking. There's always an opportunity to stop and think when reading a b…

It really depends on the type of game you play. There are a TON of open ended 'sand box' type games that don't do any of those things (City Builders, MineCraft, Factorio, etc).

There's also even more "tons" of games that do them.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#72

Post by watwut »

cortesoft wrote: post #21
watwut wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure there was such periods and plenty of books are/were trash. And when the kid did nothing but read books, parents got concerned and tried to socialize the kid and force it outside. That being said, book readers don't yell at the rest of familly because they lost level. They don't swear into microphone. They don't hit things in frustration and while they don't like much interruptions either, generally they are able…

Many kids play video games and don't do those behaviors, and I think the frustration level at being interrupted is even between readers and gamers.

I think that kids who don't display those behaviors are mature enough to play and it is fine.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#73

Post by [deleted] »

leetcrew wrote: post #55
lytedev wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but doesn't it work pretty differently? With books, you're just given words and your brain has to fill in the gaps and actually do some work. With video games and movies, your brain is directly stimulated; shown what to see and hear.

I know this is the common argument, but I'm not entirely convinced. when I was a kid, the graphics were quite primitive by today's standards, but playing the games at that age felt like stepping into a vivid other world. playing as an adult, I just see a bunch of geometry with shitty lighting while I run around clicking on HP sponges. I wouldn't say that video games are quite as stimulating as reading a good book, bu…

[deleted]

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#74

Post by pizza234 »

lytedev wrote: post #53
nitrogen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Books were an escape vehicle before TV, movies, and games.

Sure, but doesn't it work pretty differently? With books, you're just given words and your brain has to fill in the gaps and actually do some work. With video games and movies, your brain is directly stimulated; shown what to see and hear.

This reminds me of the very typical discussion about the value of mathematics and the "descendants": physics, chemistry etc. :-)

If the ultimate purpose is to "do some work", movies and videogames definitely do:

- movies require (in theory) around 90 minutes of undivided attention, which is definitely "work" (how many people can watch an entire movie without peeking at the phone?); additionally, they can be intellectually and/or emotionally stimulating - videogames are essentially, in general, structured challenges, which is "work" again: analytical, creative, reactive...

I'd say that quality of an escape, if we want to set this concept, could be better defined by the human experience added by it.

Alcohol doesn't really add any valuable experience (assuming one even remembers it).

Books, in average, may give the most valuable experience because they may be the most selective medium (due to the attention required).

TV, in average, may give the least, for the opposite reason.

Movies are definitely an infinite human capital. There's lots of garbage, of course.

I find hard to make any generalization about video games, as it's a very diverse medium. Farmville and co. "fare" in the ranks of trash TV, however, games like "Papers, Please" make a very significant experience.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#75

Post by dkersten »

leetcrew wrote: post #55
lytedev wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but doesn't it work pretty differently? With books, you're just given words and your brain has to fill in the gaps and actually do some work. With video games and movies, your brain is directly stimulated; shown what to see and hear.

I know this is the common argument, but I'm not entirely convinced. when I was a kid, the graphics were quite primitive by today's standards, but playing the games at that age felt like stepping into a vivid other world. playing as an adult, I just see a bunch of geometry with shitty lighting while I run around clicking on HP sponges. I wouldn't say that video games are quite as stimulating as reading a good book, bu…

And how we used to think whatever the latest in graphics was, was oh so realistic and amazing!

I played MUD’s for a few years when I was younger and in hindsight it was amazing: while the writing wasn’t typically as good as a book, you still filled in the world and characters with your imagination and it was both interactive and social. I still have some vivid memories of it that are as clear as if it had been a modern game or movie, despite that in reality I was reading text.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#76

Post by coryrc »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #9
cortesoft wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? Both are using something to entertain yourself, and it seems pretty arbitrary to distinguish between them. In fact, I am pretty sure there has been times on our history where reading fiction was treated the same way we treat watching YouTube videos tod…

I think there's some truth to that, though. As a former video game addict, I look back on my time spent gaming as largely a waste. Most of it was a compulsion, like staying up until 4am re-queuing in Dota. Or grinding some armor piece. But I don't look back with regret on any of my time spent reading. I think most people here know what I'm talking about. Why is that? I can think of a few guesses. Books aren't in the…

It's whether there's a story line or not; playing Mass Effect is going to give you a book-like experience while DotA is just a time filler.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#77

Post by jungler »

csmeder wrote: post #41

There are two separate issues: A. 1,000 ft view: drugs are bad. Both chemical drugs and electronic entertainment that is engineered to be addictive. Light weight drugs in small doses are less bad: 90s vs now. B. 50,000 ft view: the real problem. When rats are put in normal laboratory settings they choose drugs over food and water if given the choice. Most of our research on addiction is based on this. In a study wher…

The more I think about the "boredom is good" concept, the more I suspect it's flawed. Bored kids get into trouble, especially as they get older. By 18, a very bored kid left to chance will have found an unhealthy outlet like drinking or property theft.

We have a lot of screens now. But it's what one sees and does with the screen that matters. There is an element of media as pollution in this, but it's contrasted against our notion of "the classics". We always end up with a youth that is a mixture of the misspent and the classics.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#78

Post by leetcrew »

watwut wrote: post #70
leetcrew wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That being said, book readers don't yell at the rest of familly because they lost level. They don't swear into microphone. They don't hit things in frustration and while they don't like much interruptions either, generally they are able to answer basic questions. if you let children play sports in the backyard, they are liable to do all those annoying things. also I take particular issue with the "able to answer ba…

It is much less of a problem on yard. There is less lashing out toward unplaying family members and they are more likely to abandon or solve frustrating situation. See, and when they are not playing video game they are responding questions without trouble and I don't have to tiptoe around then. They are more willing to breat the game for answer or help. I don't have to treat them as someone special who can be approac…

if the kids in your life are verbally attacking other family members when they lose and screaming at you when you try to ask them a question, I agree, that is unacceptable behavior.

I still take issue with the responding to questions thing though. I think your perspective shows that you don't think games are a legitimate activity, so you don't have to care about interrupting them. think about it more like football practice after school. if you are watching from the sidelines and think of a question to ask the child, are you going to just run out onto the field and demand that they respond? I think you would either wait until the end of practice or just say something like "hey, when you are finished I need to talk to you about something". this is a much more respectful way to act, and really doesn't take too much effort on your part.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#79

Post by abootstrapper »

anonu wrote: post #65

I disagree with the premise of the article and its conclusions to let kids get bored. Boredom is plain evil. It is not something that should be sought out. Rather, it is a symptom of unpreparedness or parents not stoking inherent creativity in their kids. As a kid, I rarely left home without a book. That habit still exists today. If I was "bored" or had some idle time, I had something to keep me entertained. On long…

Don’t you think the kid should be learning to cure boredom themselves? If you always tie your kids shoes, how will they learn to tie their own shoes? Likewise, if you always provide entertainment, how will they learn to entertain themselves?

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#80

Post by shrimp_emoji »

pizza234 wrote: post #74
lytedev wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but doesn't it work pretty differently? With books, you're just given words and your brain has to fill in the gaps and actually do some work. With video games and movies, your brain is directly stimulated; shown what to see and hear.

This reminds me of the very typical discussion about the value of mathematics and the "descendants": physics, chemistry etc. :-) If the ultimate purpose is to "do some work", movies and videogames definitely do: - movies require (in theory) around 90 minutes of undivided attention, which is definitely "work" (how many people can watch an entire movie without peeking at the phone?); additionally, they can be intellect…

Where do games like Screeps, Dwarf Fortress, RimWorld, Factorio, or Minecraft feature? Leveraging (or demanding) the user's creativity and construction to meaningfully drive gameplay (though how meaningfully varies) is like opening an extra dimension compared to games where you're only meant to respond to stimuli relatively simply, like Papers, Please.
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