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Let Children Get Bored Again

nytimes.com

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Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#51

Post by nitrogen »

clubm8 wrote: post #48
csmeder wrote: post #41

There are two separate issues: A. 1,000 ft view: drugs are bad. Both chemical drugs and electronic entertainment that is engineered to be addictive. Light weight drugs in small doses are less bad: 90s vs now. B. 50,000 ft view: the real problem. When rats are put in normal laboratory settings they choose drugs over food and water if given the choice. Most of our research on addiction is based on this. In a study wher…

Personally I think the issue is, and I struggled for a long time to articulate this... escape. I have always struggled with a cluster of issues... too much tv, too much internet, for a period in college binge drinking, overeating... the big "aha!" was that I was engaging in these behaviors to escape reality. We live in a unique time where if you don't like the reality you're in, you can step into another. Society has…

Books were an escape vehicle before TV, movies, and games.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#52

Post by solipsism »

My dad grew up without a TV. He hardly had any books. He and his brothers ran around town finding adventures. This is exactly the kind of childhood the author advocates for.

And yet, today, in his retirement, my dad sits in front of the TV or computer 24/7. He doesn't produce anything, he just consumes.

It's just one anecdote. But I think articles like these always receive many upvotes and clicks, only because they match many people's gut feeling. It seems right that letting kids get bored would spark creativity.

But feeling right is not the same thing as being right. Give me some argument for why I should believe these claims. Read the article again -- there's not an ounce of proof behind any of the many claims.

For every Lin Manuel Miranda there are a thousand my dads, who didn't turn their boredom into some kind of admirable creative passion. So which one is the outlier?

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#53

Post by lytedev »

nitrogen wrote: post #51
clubm8 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think the issue is, and I struggled for a long time to articulate this... escape. I have always struggled with a cluster of issues... too much tv, too much internet, for a period in college binge drinking, overeating... the big "aha!" was that I was engaging in these behaviors to escape reality. We live in a unique time where if you don't like the reality you're in, you can step into another. Society has…

Books were an escape vehicle before TV, movies, and games.

Sure, but doesn't it work pretty differently? With books, you're just given words and your brain has to fill in the gaps and actually do some work. With video games and movies, your brain is directly stimulated; shown what to see and hear.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#54

Post by matthewwiese »

clubm8 wrote: post #48
csmeder wrote: post #41

There are two separate issues: A. 1,000 ft view: drugs are bad. Both chemical drugs and electronic entertainment that is engineered to be addictive. Light weight drugs in small doses are less bad: 90s vs now. B. 50,000 ft view: the real problem. When rats are put in normal laboratory settings they choose drugs over food and water if given the choice. Most of our research on addiction is based on this. In a study wher…

Personally I think the issue is, and I struggled for a long time to articulate this... escape. I have always struggled with a cluster of issues... too much tv, too much internet, for a period in college binge drinking, overeating... the big "aha!" was that I was engaging in these behaviors to escape reality. We live in a unique time where if you don't like the reality you're in, you can step into another. Society has…

Very well put, and I agree with your general analysis.

The question is: how exactly is this a "bad thing"?

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#55

Post by leetcrew »

lytedev wrote: post #53
nitrogen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Books were an escape vehicle before TV, movies, and games.

Sure, but doesn't it work pretty differently? With books, you're just given words and your brain has to fill in the gaps and actually do some work. With video games and movies, your brain is directly stimulated; shown what to see and hear.

I know this is the common argument, but I'm not entirely convinced. when I was a kid, the graphics were quite primitive by today's standards, but playing the games at that age felt like stepping into a vivid other world. playing as an adult, I just see a bunch of geometry with shitty lighting while I run around clicking on HP sponges.

I wouldn't say that video games are quite as stimulating as reading a good book, but I think we underestimate how much our imagination works to "fill in the gaps" to make games feel real and rewarding.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#56

Post by kordlessagain »

matthewwiese wrote: post #54
clubm8 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think the issue is, and I struggled for a long time to articulate this... escape. I have always struggled with a cluster of issues... too much tv, too much internet, for a period in college binge drinking, overeating... the big "aha!" was that I was engaging in these behaviors to escape reality. We live in a unique time where if you don't like the reality you're in, you can step into another. Society has…

Very well put, and I agree with your general analysis. The question is: how exactly is this a "bad thing"?

Specifically, the philosophical belief of dependent origination indicates practicing one thing here may lead to "things" happening there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da

The argument goes that "dropping out" may be linked to a causal effect of which of which we are not yet aware.

For example: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/08/why-young...

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#57

Post by solipsism »

semerda wrote: post #28
tarr11 wrote: post #4

The parade of concerned parents writing these kinds of articles have conveniently forgotten how much TV and video games many of us consumed in 1980s and 1990s. This stuff reads like satire: “Rather than teach them to absorb material that is slower, duller and decidedly two-dimensional, like a lot of worthwhile information is, schools cave in to what they say children expect: fun. ” The kids are going to be alright.

TV in the 80s/90s was limited to a handful of channels. Now you have unlimited channels with YouTube, Netflix et al. Also gaming in the 90s was you'd play one game till the end. Today kids (and adults) jump in true adhd style between the ~100 games they got for free from the app store. Rarely finishing a game till the end. As a kid I remember having to create my own games and toys using nature (sticks, stones, etc).…

As a kid I remember having to create my own games and toys using nature (sticks, stones, etc). Today kids get handed a toy and they play

Actually my kid gets handed a forest. He chops trees down to get sticks, which he turns into forts and weapons and vehicles and things you've never dreamed of. Then he writes code to make them do things.

Playing with physical things is great. Playing outside is great. But you guys have a very narrow view of what digital media is like these days.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#58

Post by cortesoft »

joe_the_user wrote: post #44
cortesoft wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? Both are using something to entertain yourself, and it seems pretty arbitrary to distinguish between them. In fact, I am pretty sure there has been times on our history where reading fiction was treated the same way we treat watching YouTube videos tod…

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? - Why? Because a video game move forward at it's speed, setting, since it keeps things going regardless, it's own agenda. A book only moves forward at the speed of a child's own thinking. There's always an opportunity to stop and think when reading a b…

It really depends on the type of game you play. There are a TON of open ended 'sand box' type games that don't do any of those things (City Builders, MineCraft, Factorio, etc).

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#59

Post by solipsism »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #9
cortesoft wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? Both are using something to entertain yourself, and it seems pretty arbitrary to distinguish between them. In fact, I am pretty sure there has been times on our history where reading fiction was treated the same way we treat watching YouTube videos tod…

I think there's some truth to that, though. As a former video game addict, I look back on my time spent gaming as largely a waste. Most of it was a compulsion, like staying up until 4am re-queuing in Dota. Or grinding some armor piece. But I don't look back with regret on any of my time spent reading. I think most people here know what I'm talking about. Why is that? I can think of a few guesses. Books aren't in the…

I don't look back with regret on any of my time spent reading. I think most people here know what I'm talking about. Why is that?

Easy one. It's because this is how society teaches you to feel.

You grew up in a world where schools tell you read anything you can get your hands on. They have book fairs, summer reading contests, entire libraries full of both nonfiction and fiction. It's drilled into your from an early age how valuable reading is.

If society indoctrinated you to feel that way about video games, that's how you'd feel.

There was a time when they only books considered worthwhile were nonfiction (and maybe the Bible). If a teacher caught you with a mystery or romance book, you'd be spanked in front of the class. In those days you'd feel guilty for spending an entire day reading Jane Eyre.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#60

Post by leetcrew »

watwut wrote: post #17
cortesoft wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? Both are using something to entertain yourself, and it seems pretty arbitrary to distinguish between them. In fact, I am pretty sure there has been times on our history where reading fiction was treated the same way we treat watching YouTube videos tod…

Sure there was such periods and plenty of books are/were trash. And when the kid did nothing but read books, parents got concerned and tried to socialize the kid and force it outside. That being said, book readers don't yell at the rest of familly because they lost level. They don't swear into microphone. They don't hit things in frustration and while they don't like much interruptions either, generally they are able…

> That being said, book readers don't yell at the rest of familly because they lost level. They don't swear into microphone. They don't hit things in frustration and while they don't like much interruptions either, generally they are able to answer basic questions.

if you let children play sports in the backyard, they are liable to do all those annoying things. also I take particular issue with the "able to answer basic questions" item. if you respect a person (even a child), you shouldn't expect them to drop what they're doing and answer whatever random question you have at the exact moment that it's convenient for you. unless it's truly urgent, why not just ask at family dinner?

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