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Let Children Get Bored Again

nytimes.com

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Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#11

Post by CalmStorm »

cortesoft wrote: post #6
tarr11 wrote: post #4

The parade of concerned parents writing these kinds of articles have conveniently forgotten how much TV and video games many of us consumed in 1980s and 1990s. This stuff reads like satire: “Rather than teach them to absorb material that is slower, duller and decidedly two-dimensional, like a lot of worthwhile information is, schools cave in to what they say children expect: fun. ” The kids are going to be alright.

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? Both are using something to entertain yourself, and it seems pretty arbitrary to distinguish between them. In fact, I am pretty sure there has been times on our history where reading fiction was treated the same way we treat watching YouTube videos tod…

This. I cannot agree more. I grew up in China when there were no video games. I loved reading fiction books but my teacher strictly forbade it for the similar reason we forbid our kids to watch youtube these days.

Now in Canada, my son's English class requires reading of many novels ...

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#12

Post by UnpossibleJim »

cortesoft wrote: post #6
tarr11 wrote: post #4

The parade of concerned parents writing these kinds of articles have conveniently forgotten how much TV and video games many of us consumed in 1980s and 1990s. This stuff reads like satire: “Rather than teach them to absorb material that is slower, duller and decidedly two-dimensional, like a lot of worthwhile information is, schools cave in to what they say children expect: fun. ” The kids are going to be alright.

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? Both are using something to entertain yourself, and it seems pretty arbitrary to distinguish between them. In fact, I am pretty sure there has been times on our history where reading fiction was treated the same way we treat watching YouTube videos tod…

Lol, I still remember my grandmother rolling her eyes at me reading Stephen King books as "serialized trash" when I was in my preteens during the summer months, while there was nothing else to do as she didn't believe in television.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#13

Post by seanhandley »

tarr11 wrote: post #4

The parade of concerned parents writing these kinds of articles have conveniently forgotten how much TV and video games many of us consumed in 1980s and 1990s. This stuff reads like satire: “Rather than teach them to absorb material that is slower, duller and decidedly two-dimensional, like a lot of worthwhile information is, schools cave in to what they say children expect: fun. ” The kids are going to be alright.

When I was growing up in the 90s we had 2 hours of kids TV programming after school and that was it. It's a far cry from the "everything on demand" culture we have today.

You can see the dopamine hits while the kids constantly hit "next" on YouTube - like a gambler at the slots.

I know how a "think of the children!" article comes across but when you dig into the neuroscience it's all rather concerning.

The kids will be alright - but what state will their neurons be in?

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#14

Post by floatingatoll »

tarr11 wrote: post #4

The parade of concerned parents writing these kinds of articles have conveniently forgotten how much TV and video games many of us consumed in 1980s and 1990s. This stuff reads like satire: “Rather than teach them to absorb material that is slower, duller and decidedly two-dimensional, like a lot of worthwhile information is, schools cave in to what they say children expect: fun. ” The kids are going to be alright.

As a kid from the 80s, my parents prohibited video game consoles except for a GameBoy during Thanksgiving trips. It took me years of work as a child to successfully overcome their restrictions and get games onto the family computer.

At one point I synthesized a hybrid of every Jazz Jackrabbit level and bonus level into a single launcher sceeen, something the publisher hadn’t because DLC and GOTY weren’t things yet.

I was bored out of my skull as a child and applied every ounce of that boredom to making my life interesting. My parents didn’t ban games because, apparently, I had to work hard to play them at all.

I would have been much less interested in computers if I’d had a Nintendo console that I could just play games on, to the point that I might have become a math professor instead of an IT guru.

TLDR: Take care not to conflate 80s-90s PC gaming with “one-click” gaming such as consoles, Steam, etc. Their effect on children can vary wildly.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#15

Post by Pharmakon »

tarr11 wrote: post #4

The parade of concerned parents writing these kinds of articles have conveniently forgotten how much TV and video games many of us consumed in 1980s and 1990s. This stuff reads like satire: “Rather than teach them to absorb material that is slower, duller and decidedly two-dimensional, like a lot of worthwhile information is, schools cave in to what they say children expect: fun. ” The kids are going to be alright.

My memory of those years was that a lot of TV was shit by any standard, and most of it wasn’t aimed at kids. Sure, you had Saturday morning cartoons, and endless reruns, but it was painfully easy to be bored in front of the TV. Games were fun if you had them, but the lack of complexity and depth, alongside limited supply of them meant they got boring too.

I don’t think comparing the TV most people had in the 80’s and 90’s, and the games, to the Internet, modern MP games, and streaming “tv” is remotely fair. It might also be unwise when you consider those same decades saw an explosion of childhood obesity. A kid with an internet connection today has access to most of the world’s entertainment, either to purchase or pirate. We also weren’t able to be in 24/7 contact with each other, so boredom was very real. Even as an avid reader, I was limited by what books I owned, or were available at the library. Now there are no limits at all.

If you want to, you stay plugged in without coming close to exhausting novel entertainment, and never be bored. Maybe that will prove to be harmless, or maybe not. Maybe using a whole generation of people as lab rats for profit is unwise and unethical?

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#16

Post by cortesoft »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #9
cortesoft wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? Both are using something to entertain yourself, and it seems pretty arbitrary to distinguish between them. In fact, I am pretty sure there has been times on our history where reading fiction was treated the same way we treat watching YouTube videos tod…

I think there's some truth to that, though. As a former video game addict, I look back on my time spent gaming as largely a waste. Most of it was a compulsion, like staying up until 4am re-queuing in Dota. Or grinding some armor piece. But I don't look back with regret on any of my time spent reading. I think most people here know what I'm talking about. Why is that? I can think of a few guesses. Books aren't in the…

I think the same arguments you make for books could be made for video games (especially ones like minecraft): they require imagination and exposure to different interpretations of the world.

My mom also used to tell me to get off the computer and go outside, while I wanted to stay inside and mess around with the computer. 25 years later, I use those self taught computer programming skills to make a good living as a software developer.

I think the point is that it is impossible to know which 'boredom' activities will lead to creativity.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#17

Post by watwut »

cortesoft wrote: post #6
tarr11 wrote: post #4

The parade of concerned parents writing these kinds of articles have conveniently forgotten how much TV and video games many of us consumed in 1980s and 1990s. This stuff reads like satire: “Rather than teach them to absorb material that is slower, duller and decidedly two-dimensional, like a lot of worthwhile information is, schools cave in to what they say children expect: fun. ” The kids are going to be alright.

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? Both are using something to entertain yourself, and it seems pretty arbitrary to distinguish between them. In fact, I am pretty sure there has been times on our history where reading fiction was treated the same way we treat watching YouTube videos tod…

Sure there was such periods and plenty of books are/were trash. And when the kid did nothing but read books, parents got concerned and tried to socialize the kid and force it outside.

That being said, book readers don't yell at the rest of familly because they lost level. They don't swear into microphone. They don't hit things in frustration and while they don't like much interruptions either, generally they are able to answer basic questions.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#18

Post by finaliteration »

darkpuma wrote: post #2

Makes sense. Many of my best memories as a child started off with me being bored. My mother only let me have 30 minutes of screen time per day, computer and television combined, so the rest of the time I was forced to run around bored looking for things to do.

Not only that, but screen-based entertainment wasn’t available on-demand. Remember having to wait until a certain time to watch a show you wanted to watch and figuring out something else to do while waiting? Or having to wait until someone was off the phone to use the internet? I feel like another big problem related to boredom is the general lack of patience in our society today. If I can’t have it -right now- then it’s not worthwhile. Which is unfortunate, because a lot of things worth doing require both boredom and patience.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#19

Post by NeedMoreTea »

seanhandley wrote: post #13
tarr11 wrote: post #4

The parade of concerned parents writing these kinds of articles have conveniently forgotten how much TV and video games many of us consumed in 1980s and 1990s. This stuff reads like satire: “Rather than teach them to absorb material that is slower, duller and decidedly two-dimensional, like a lot of worthwhile information is, schools cave in to what they say children expect: fun. ” The kids are going to be alright.

When I was growing up in the 90s we had 2 hours of kids TV programming after school and that was it. It's a far cry from the "everything on demand" culture we have today. You can see the dopamine hits while the kids constantly hit "next" on YouTube - like a gambler at the slots. I know how a "think of the children!" article comes across but when you dig into the neuroscience it's all rather concerning. The kids will…

That's roughly what we duplicated via router restrictions, open access at weekend. Several of my tech aware friends did similar things - some looser, some tighter.

More to make sure there was free space to do homework, chores, read, get ready for school etc without 24/7 WoW, youtube, facebook or messaging, than any scare. Terrible parents that we were, during peak Harry Potter we'd even tell them to put the book down now and then. :)

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#20

Post by c22 »

twic wrote: post #7
tarr11 wrote: post #4

The parade of concerned parents writing these kinds of articles have conveniently forgotten how much TV and video games many of us consumed in 1980s and 1990s. This stuff reads like satire: “Rather than teach them to absorb material that is slower, duller and decidedly two-dimensional, like a lot of worthwhile information is, schools cave in to what they say children expect: fun. ” The kids are going to be alright.

> The parade of concerned parents writing these kinds of articles have conveniently forgotten how much TV and video games many of us consumed in 1980s and 1990s. One of the great things about growing up in the UK in the '80s is that there were only four television channels, and they were all a bit rubbish (we got a fraction of the cartoons the US did, and our local children's programmes were often extremely dull). I…

I grew up in the US, but I had a similar limitation because my parent's house was in a ravine. Eventually in my tweens I wired an antenna up on the roof (my room was in the attic) and was able to capture a handful of signals, but changing the channel involved climbing out on the roof to adjust the antenna, so it was not convenient. I definitely credit this with stoking my interest in computers and other hobbies. The neighbor kids had cable and they never seemed to do anything else.
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