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McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

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41–50 of 71 posts

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#41

The people I really think should be held to account are those that suddenly cut off all the prescription opioid addicts by changing the rules without putting in place treatment options first. To expect millions of addicts to not switch to street Fentanyl and end up dying in large numbers after being cut off from prescription opioids is criminal stupidity.

What if that was done on purpose to reduce cost/long-term crime, masquerading itself as stupidity?

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#42
post #41

The people I really think should be held to account are those that suddenly cut off all the prescription opioid addicts by changing the rules without putting in place treatment options first. To expect millions of addicts to not switch to street Fentanyl and end up dying in large numbers after being cut off from prescription opioids is criminal stupidity.

What if that was done on purpose to reduce cost/long-term crime, masquerading itself as stupidity?

Then it's not criminal stupidity, but "just" criminal?

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#43
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

McKinsey invented the category in many ways and is the gold standard to some. It’s like how anything Apple is a thing.

A book called "Lords of Strategy" tracks the consulting "apple" thing. It is a good read. Sorry for duplications. I think overall management consulting is a world ready to be distrupted (if not already). Regurgitation sold as overpriced thoughtware

It’s tough (speaking as a consultant at a smaller company). Large company procurement/legal basically limits the viable pool of competing consulting firms to those with sunk capital in their own big legal/procurement. And the big 4 management consulting firms have all perfected getting that large company’s client relationship and landing contract after contract.

It’s the same reason the same big 4-5 federal contractors win most of the work. The sunk cost in needed bureaucracy is large, it’s hard for a small player to compete.

The root issue is big co procurement has taken accountability away from the people who actually use and understand the services. So in my company’s case it’s common to start a relationship with a counterpart at a firm very willing to invest in our services. Sadly the procurement bureaucracy really gets in the way of progress making everything more expensive for both sides. If you’re Accenture and McKinsey you just (unethically in my opinion) sink the cost but then milk the relationship for all it’s worth.

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#44
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if that was done on purpose to reduce cost/long-term crime, masquerading itself as stupidity?

Then it's not criminal stupidity, but "just" criminal?

When you make the laws, is becoming a criminal ever a fear?

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#45
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ve totally missed the definition of “whataboutism”. When questioning the ethics of a specific firm in an industry, it’s relevant if they are behaving exactly the same as everyone else in the same industry. “Perdue chickens are kept in cages!” is flimsy journalism if every large scale chicken farm also keeps their chicken in cages, and the article fails to explain why Perdue is being singled out. Reporting…

>"I think you’ve totally missed the definition of “whataboutism”." Not at all. Whataboutism is a variation on "tu quoque", the idea being an attempt to establish an equivalence between two disparate actions. The disparate actions here being McKinsey's active role in the opioid epidemic - the focal point of this article and the consulting industry's questionable moral compass. PWC, Deloitte and KPMG are not "also" pus…

They are consulting on other projects that are equally shitty and immoral, whether it be how to structure some financial instrument to screw someone over, or how to implement software to variably price some product based on protected factors, or how to price pharmaceuticals to maximize subscriber copays, or how to design a product with better obsolescence, etc. etc. etc.

Saying that McKinsey is uniquely shitty is perhaps a case study in missing the forest for the tree.

If they could be found criminally liable for all these things that they help their customers

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#46
post #9

I guess McKinsey erred in accepting the work from Purdue, but it seems like the consulting provided was obvious and likely overpriced. More at fault, in my estimation, is the AMA and other physician standards bodies. Propublica released a search tool [0] last year based on Open Payments Data [1] and the numbers are ridiculous. My small state shows 10s of physicians receiving over $100k over the recorded 2013-2016 per…

Know that Gell-Mann amnesia effect that comes up all over Hn? As a physician, former health insurance exec, and guy with a graduate degree in health policy: propublica deserves deep skepticism.

Also deserving of skepticism: doctors who accept money from big Pharma.

It motivates over prescription. That's a scientifically proven fact.

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is worth drilling down on. What types of errors should one expect and what are their causes?

Looking closer at the data, almost everyone is receiving small travel, lunch payments. Many of the higher earners are receiving large sums for "Promotional Speaker/Other", "Consulting Fee" or "Current or prospective ownership or investment interest". Comparing 10 or so names in the source data with the Propublica data, often Propublica has identical amounts and trasactions as the Open data, a few times Propublica's d…

They also get paid to speak about drugs. Thousands of dollars per lecture and interestingly the only people in attendance at said lectures are the physician and a drug rep and the venue is a restaurant.

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#48
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it's not criminal stupidity, but "just" criminal?

When you make the laws, is becoming a criminal ever a fear?

I think by definition, they'd fail to be a criminal, and simply be immoral.

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#49
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Know that Gell-Mann amnesia effect that comes up all over Hn? As a physician, former health insurance exec, and guy with a graduate degree in health policy: propublica deserves deep skepticism.

Also deserving of skepticism: doctors who accept money from big Pharma. It motivates over prescription. That's a scientifically proven fact.

One of my doctors refused to give me a prescription for a 25mg version of a medication over a 5mg version (pill could be cut in pieces and still as efficient), as the lower dosage was classified as "cosmetic", commanding 50x higher prices/mg, whereas the higher dosage was "life-saving", therefore cheap. Then I went to another doctor and experienced the same. The same doctor was recommending me to buy the higher dosage and split it into pieces just 2 years ago.

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#50

Is it really just McKinsey, or are these articles focused on McKinsey because they are the most schadenfreude-inducing among big management consulting firms (akin to the media outrage directed at Facebook)? e.g. are BCG, Bain, the consulting arms of the Big 4 any more ethical in what they will or won't do for a paying client? The story would be more interesting if everyone outside of McKinsey refused to do consulting…

Yes it is news worthy for the same reasons facebooks role in the election was news worthy, the same reason Goldman Sachs behavior was news worthy in the 2008 great recession. People hold these companies and their employees in such high esteem (to the point some people don’t thing articles should be published about their bad behavior, rather articles should be published about other firms hypothetically engaging in the…

”At the end of the day the worlds biggest companies are willing to knowingly take money from foreign governments to illegally spread propaganda to influence elections”

Are you talking about Facebook? There’s no proof of this happening and bundling it with legitimate concerns makes it easy to dismiss all of the arguments.

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