If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving? • Hacker News Board

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#161

Post by techslave » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 8:35 PM UTC

eweise wrote: post #72

austincheney wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is bleeding something like 60,000 people each year just to Texas. The Californians moving to north Texas metros do not appear poor relative to neighboring Texans enjoying superior standards of living with deprecated wages compared to California. When I bought my Texas house about a decade ago the average house price in my metro was about $200,000 and now I think it is about $250,000. These average houses a…

California property taxes about are about 1.5%, not 6.5%

he means that you end up paying the same in property tax, even tho the house itself is much (6.5x) cheaper. and the tax payment comes out of your cash flow, not your assets.

but he’s not taking into account other reductions in expense, like no state income tax.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#162

Post by sizzle » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 9:28 PM UTC

simook wrote: post #61

aphextron wrote: post #30

After recently getting back from Portland, it couldn't be more painfully obvious that the entire problem comes down to housing. They are building new (affordable!) apartments there like nothing I've ever seen. You literally can't walk two or three blocks without seeing a construction crane. And the local culture reflects that. So many business that simply could not exist in SF were thriving due to the cheap labor and…

As exciting as this is to see. It's hard for me to watch Portland change into a different city. I think the hardest aspect right now is the amount of trash that is being thrown aside in the roads, parks, and greenways. I was born and raised in this area and it's been tough for me to witness this beautiful city being treated that way. If you want to help clean up Portland, I strongly recommend volunteering with the SO…

What about the homelessness problem?

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#163

Post by sizzle » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 9:37 PM UTC

bojackstorkman wrote: post #132

aphextron wrote: post #30

After recently getting back from Portland, it couldn't be more painfully obvious that the entire problem comes down to housing. They are building new (affordable!) apartments there like nothing I've ever seen. You literally can't walk two or three blocks without seeing a construction crane. And the local culture reflects that. So many business that simply could not exist in SF were thriving due to the cheap labor and…

I find this post interesting. I moved out of Portland last year because I was summarily priced out of the city. By "Portland" are you including Gresham/Milwaukie/Beaverton in your estimation? About seven years ago my friends and I got a 2bd 1.5br apartment for $775 per month in SW Portland. That same apartment is now about double that. In many of the new or renovated buildings you can see a lot of studio apartments w…

Where are all the new high paying jobs to support higher cost of living though?

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#164

Post by diogenescynic » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 11:29 PM UTC

twtw wrote: post #88

diogenescynic wrote: post #42

Its not. The quality of life is terrible here for what you are paying for. I pay $3000 for a one bedroom and constantly have homeless people in my garage or camping next to my building. My car has been broken into several times. Cops don’t walk a beat or do anything whatsoever to prevent crime. If you call the cops they basically shrug it off unless there’s actual violence happening. The traffic is terrible, public t…

> I pay $3000 for a one bedroom > If I could move, I would. If you don't mind, why can't you move? Caring for family members?

Me and my wife both have jobs here and finding two jobs at once to relocate is difficult. Both our families are here, not caring for them (yet) but that also makes it hard.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#165

Post by egypturnash » Sun, Feb 03, 2019, 12:30 AM UTC

tasubotadas wrote: post #108

egypturnash wrote: post #104

None of my artist friends who were born in SF can afford to live there any more. My techie friends are starting to move out because it's getting less affordable for even them, or because the only people left of their circles are other techies. Seattle's going the same way, rapidly. I hope nobody who works for Amazon or Microsoft decides to follow me when I leave this town for the place I grew up, because tech money s…

Well, that's how the cookie crumbles. If you can't afford the place where you currently live, you move somewhere else.

I wonder if SF will get bad enough that it's simply not worth the commute for anyone who's not a techie to live there. No more fast-food workers. Nobody to clean the toilets. Nobody who isn't a software zillionaire in a perfect, shining Galt's Gulch on the ocean.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#166

Post by youeseh » Sun, Feb 03, 2019, 1:35 AM UTC

youeseh wrote: post #38

maxsilver wrote: post #14

> There is an apocalyptic amount of people moving into California, and no one blames them for the overcrowding and the shifting culture. But when too many Californians leave California and settle in, say, Portland, they are blamed for ruining the place by way of simply being themselves. Part of this is where the money comes from. Poorer/lower-middle-class people (mostly) move into California, to work these jobs under…

The mostly men who move to California for the tech jobs are called "tech-bros" and are hated on for various reasons and often blamed for inflated rents and the expensive housing market.

Oh wow, more downvotes than I anticipated. Just to clarify, I'm not saying that the blame and hate are deserved. I was countering OP's point that people don't blame job-migrants for rising prices in California.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#167

Post by throwaway98121 » Sun, Feb 03, 2019, 5:45 AM UTC

phillipamann wrote: post #126

throwaway98121 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I understood from your post is you don’t want an area full of product managers, data scientists, and software people, but you’re very content in an area that replaces them with Jewish people? I think everything you said is entirely subjective. I would personally rather be surrounded by techies than people of a particular race or religion, as long as these people come from different genders, races, ethnicities, o…

"I wanted to be near a Jewish population because that is important to me." I didn't know that Jewish people are only Jewish people and not Jewish product managers or jewish musicians, for example. Well, if the data is accurate about Silicon Valley. The techies you surround yourself with don't com from many different races, religions, ethnicities, genders, beliefs, etc. Your whole talk about full diversity is just tal…

IMO the Bay Area is far more diverse than many parts of the country with people from different Asian countries. It’s subjective. You don’t see it as diverse but having grew up in the Midwest, the culture and people of various ethnicities and lifestyles are far more diverse.

I didn’t say Jewish population is only a religious population. You’re arguing a straw man.

My point was I’m personally happy with the diversity in the Bay Area, which from reading your post, wasn’t good enough for you because you want a Jewish population.

Which studies back up your claims about SF being so horrible that people have to move to Israel? Wow.

Again, my point still stands that your view of the Bay Area not meeting some bar of diversity and particular culture, is subjective to you.

Some things aren’t black and white.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#168

Post by throwaway98121 » Sun, Feb 03, 2019, 5:46 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #144

throwaway98121 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I understood from your post is you don’t want an area full of product managers, data scientists, and software people, but you’re very content in an area that replaces them with Jewish people? I think everything you said is entirely subjective. I would personally rather be surrounded by techies than people of a particular race or religion, as long as these people come from different genders, races, ethnicities, o…

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

What was the stronger or weaker one? Op posted his opinions as being objective truths, which I pointed are subjective.

Enlighten me.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#169

Post by greenyoda » Sun, Feb 03, 2019, 6:50 AM UTC

paulie_a wrote: post #146

ummonk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC isn’t nearly as expensive. I know people who have bought affordable houses in places like New Jersey and have reasonable commutes. That just isn’t possible in the Bay Area.

NJ isn't NYC That's like saying Chicago isn't expensive if you just buy in a different state.

Large parts of NJ (including NJ's five largest cities[1]) are part of the "NYC Metro Area", right across the Hudson River and well-connected to NYC by commuter rail and bus routes. The commute from NJ to midtown Manhattan can be shorter than the commute from some of the outlying parts of NYC.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#170

Post by ido » Sun, Feb 03, 2019, 8:21 AM UTC

davidw wrote: post #96

rsync wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It’s also possible that there is such a pent-up demand for housing in San Francisco that no amount of building could realistically do enough to make things truly affordable." I am an SFBA (Marin) resident with a fairly large financial and personal interest in the health and welfare of the city of San Francisco - so this is something I think a lot about. I think your point is interesting and should be considered. Obv…

What's odd is that you talk to people in the following places who are convinced that an "unlimited" number of people want to live in their area: * The bay area * Boulder * Austin * Portland * Seattle And so on and so forth - and even right here in Bend, Oregon! I have a suspicion that everyone wanting to live in all those places probably isn't actually true.

There has been a general flocking back into the cities in the last ±20 years.

I don't know about Bend but all other cities you mentioned are desirable urban hotspots with (relatively) plenty of attractive jobs.

I find it very easy to imagine the supply of people interested in moving to all of them outstrips supply by so much as to practically be indistinguishable from unlimited.

There really are a lot of people around and there are as many in not more decaying/depopulating areas to compensate for the Austins and Berlins of the world.