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McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

nytimes.com

21–30 of 71 posts

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#21
>>and “suggested sales ‘drivers’ based on the ideas that opioids reduce stress and make patients more optimistic and less isolated,”

Not American style justice, but making them take heroin-like painkillers would be poetic justice. If it wasn't good for stress reducing and to make you feel optimistic, McKinsey consultants would not have recommended that line of promotion, no?

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#22
post #17

Please don't take this personally. We have a situation here that I have seen a few times and I need help understanding it. We have an article in the New York Times. Some dude on Twitter reacts to it. You link to the dude on Twitter instead of the Times. Why? Even worse, you did not even link to the dude on Twitter. You link to some unrelated "thread unrolling" service, carefully making sure nobody who did any of the…

I agree, not linking to the original source is very annoying and makes it difficult to understand what's going on and form an opinion.

But, doing a (very) little investigation, "seapunk" is the creator of this Threader [1] web page, and is apparently spamming the service here [2].

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18400319

https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=seapunk

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#23
post #17

Please don't take this personally. We have a situation here that I have seen a few times and I need help understanding it. We have an article in the New York Times. Some dude on Twitter reacts to it. You link to the dude on Twitter instead of the Times. Why? Even worse, you did not even link to the dude on Twitter. You link to some unrelated "thread unrolling" service, carefully making sure nobody who did any of the…

Ok, we changed the URL to the NYT from https://threader.app/thread/1091690262718496768.

Submitters: the HN guidelines say "Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#24

Is it really just McKinsey, or are these articles focused on McKinsey because they are the most schadenfreude-inducing among big management consulting firms (akin to the media outrage directed at Facebook)? e.g. are BCG, Bain, the consulting arms of the Big 4 any more ethical in what they will or won't do for a paying client? The story would be more interesting if everyone outside of McKinsey refused to do consulting…

McKinsey invented the category in many ways and is the gold standard to some. It’s like how anything Apple is a thing.

A book called "Lords of Strategy" tracks the consulting "apple" thing. It is a good read. Sorry for duplications. I think overall management consulting is a world ready to be distrupted (if not already). Regurgitation sold as overpriced thoughtware

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#25
post #17

Please don't take this personally. We have a situation here that I have seen a few times and I need help understanding it. We have an article in the New York Times. Some dude on Twitter reacts to it. You link to the dude on Twitter instead of the Times. Why? Even worse, you did not even link to the dude on Twitter. You link to some unrelated "thread unrolling" service, carefully making sure nobody who did any of the…

I agree, not linking to the original source is very annoying and makes it difficult to understand what's going on and form an opinion. But, doing a (very) little investigation, "seapunk" is the creator of this Threader [1] web page, and is apparently spamming the service here [2]. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18400319 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=seapunk

Indeed I’m the creator but I only share content that is relevant for the HN community.

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have noticed that most accusations of whataboutism are somewhat misplaced. It is not whataboutism to question why a certain company gets the brunt of journalistic targeting while similar other companies do not. If you disagree on the material claims, sure, feel free to point out your reasons, but accusing of whataboutism with just a vague defence of 'journalism', when it's clear that the field is rife with partial…

My comment is very clearly in response to the OP's questioning: >"are BCG, Bain, the consulting arms of the Big 4 any more ethical in what they will or won't do for a paying client?" This is literally asking "what about the other big 4 consulting companies?" There is nothing "misplaced" about my usage of the term here. The article is about a lawsuit in which a specific company - Mckinsey is named as a defendant which…

I think you’ve totally missed the definition of “whataboutism”. When questioning the ethics of a specific firm in an industry, it’s relevant if they are behaving exactly the same as everyone else in the same industry.

“Perdue chickens are kept in cages!” is flimsy journalism if every large scale chicken farm also keeps their chicken in cages, and the article fails to explain why Perdue is being singled out.

Reporting on air pollution by cars and how it’s changed over the years, and responding that coal power also pollutes, is whataboutism because there’s no expectation of why the pollution level of one would be relevant to the other.

Singling out BMW and talking about how much pollution those specific cars produce because they are more likely to be driven by white collar workers, without explaining if those cars are actually producing more pollution per mile, it would not be “whataboutism” to question - what about the pollution from other brands? Is BMW actually worse or do the people who drive them just make a juicy target?

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#27
post #17

Please don't take this personally. We have a situation here that I have seen a few times and I need help understanding it. We have an article in the New York Times. Some dude on Twitter reacts to it. You link to the dude on Twitter instead of the Times. Why? Even worse, you did not even link to the dude on Twitter. You link to some unrelated "thread unrolling" service, carefully making sure nobody who did any of the…

> Even worse, you did not even link to the dude on Twitter. You link to some unrelated "thread unrolling" service, carefully making sure nobody who did any of the work gets any of the traffic.

The "dude" on Twitter is an ex-columnist for the NYT. His perspective matters. By the way, the thread links to the author.

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#28

Is it really just McKinsey, or are these articles focused on McKinsey because they are the most schadenfreude-inducing among big management consulting firms (akin to the media outrage directed at Facebook)? e.g. are BCG, Bain, the consulting arms of the Big 4 any more ethical in what they will or won't do for a paying client? The story would be more interesting if everyone outside of McKinsey refused to do consulting…

Yes it is news worthy for the same reasons facebooks role in the election was news worthy, the same reason Goldman Sachs behavior was news worthy in the 2008 great recession. People hold these companies and their employees in such high esteem (to the point some people don’t thing articles should be published about their bad behavior, rather articles should be published about other firms hypothetically engaging in the…

> help firms sell drugs that literally end up killing people

Keep in mind that's actually the best practice and it's what they were supposed to be doing. The problem isn't that they were selling drugs that were killing people, and it's that they were marketing them illegally and trying to get people hooked on them who didn't even need them in the first place.

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

McKinsey invented the category in many ways and is the gold standard to some. It’s like how anything Apple is a thing.

A book called "Lords of Strategy" tracks the consulting "apple" thing. It is a good read. Sorry for duplications. I think overall management consulting is a world ready to be distrupted (if not already). Regurgitation sold as overpriced thoughtware

It’s really dilution of blame. Actually doing anything in a corporation is hard, paying McKinsey to do what they do makes it easier, therefore there is value.

Re: McKinsey Advised Purdue Pharma How to ‘Turbocharge’ Opioid Sales, Lawsuit Says

#30
post #5

To me, McKinsey is so many layers away from the actual problem that I find it difficult to single them out. The main responsibility lies with the doctor prescribing the medicine. Then with the company that pushed and produced them, then with McKinsey that consulted them and finally with the Uber drivers that brought the sales people and the patients to the doctors.

At the very top of that pyramid of blame you should place the elected officials allowing corporations so blatantly to abuse its citizens for profit for such an extended period of time.
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