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If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

sf.curbed.com

131–140 of 178 posts

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#131
post #56

This article is really spot on. It feels like we're in a big speculative mess in Bay Area. The home-price-to-income ratio in SJ is about 20x [1] Anything over 3x used to be considered "risky". Let's say in Costal Areas it was be allowed to double, then you have 6x. That's good, not great, but ok. And that's about what pricy DC and NY cost. SJ is 20x. How is this possibly sustainable? Not even going to get into the du…

The poor in California don't move because of the warm weather and 1/3rd of all welfare in the United States is spent in there.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#132

After recently getting back from Portland, it couldn't be more painfully obvious that the entire problem comes down to housing. They are building new (affordable!) apartments there like nothing I've ever seen. You literally can't walk two or three blocks without seeing a construction crane. And the local culture reflects that. So many business that simply could not exist in SF were thriving due to the cheap labor and…

I find this post interesting. I moved out of Portland last year because I was summarily priced out of the city. By "Portland" are you including Gresham/Milwaukie/Beaverton in your estimation?

About seven years ago my friends and I got a 2bd 1.5br apartment for $775 per month in SW Portland. That same apartment is now about double that. In many of the new or renovated buildings you can see a lot of studio apartments with a price floor of $1,300 per month.

Also, little things like a beer that used to cost $2.09 now costs $4.19. What used to be a $4 sandwich is now $7.25, $1.60 tacos went up to about $3. Even prices for stuff like clothing at Goodwill went up significantly over the years that I lived in Portland.

I know this is just my personal experience (and that of my friends), but the genral trend that I saw was an enormous shift to accomodate higher income individuals and families, and an exodus of lower income people all over the place.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m having trouble seeing the intention of this comment. Could you please explain it?

Presumably it’s attempting to call out the fallacy of using personal anecdota to refute a statement, as the title appears to be doing.

This isn't an objection to your comment, but it should be pointed out that titles do not do anything except represent the article. Articles are the things that say things. One of the reasons why Hacker News is strict about titles is because readers act as though they're information in and of themselves, and we predictably get nonsense discussions as a result.

We have Twitter for one-liners about one-liners; we're trying for something a little less slapdash here.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#134
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get this part. I’ve been led to believe tenants have all the power over landlords.

Of course the housing crisis has many factors contributing to it. This is a major one. If a place has a majority of renters, has a prevailing political culture of socialism and activism, and the rents start going up fast, you likely end up with an erosion of property rights with rent control and other restrictions on landlords. Tyranny of the majority. If landlords are seen by the local culture as bad people this qui…

This. I would also add that renters with such strong rights as they have in SF also constitute a mutex on a property. When so many of the units have these mutexes, it makes it basically impossible to develop property in San Francisco. The other policies such as minimum parking requirements, CEQA lawsuits and "you'll block my view" lawsuits, etc. are all basically mutexes on a property held by everyone but the property owner, which is the only person with an incentive to develop their property for profit. And by "develop" I mean build more housing that would help alleviate the shortage.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#136
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is bleeding something like 60,000 people each year just to Texas. The Californians moving to north Texas metros do not appear poor relative to neighboring Texans enjoying superior standards of living with deprecated wages compared to California. When I bought my Texas house about a decade ago the average house price in my metro was about $200,000 and now I think it is about $250,000. These average houses a…

California property taxes about are about 1.5%, not 6.5%

I think they mean the houses are 5x cheaper, but tax is 5x higher, therefore they wouldn't want to buy a 'mansion' in Texas

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#137
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely hope we can keep Oregon 'green'! > I hope Portland will continue to be a beautiful city for my children to enjoy. To bring it back to housing, Portland might be a place your children can enjoy because they could actually afford to live there, unlike much of the bay area.

I seriously considered moving to Portland, until I read articles like this one[1] which predicted that Portland would basically be destroyed in a major earthquake. [1] - https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big...

Thanks for the link; that was an extremely well written article.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#138
Every so often one of these articles comes along and someone writes at length about the struggle of living in the bay area. I've been here over 13 years now and these articles are a constant.

First, the Bay Area never promised to be anything to anyone. It had its roots in the gold rush and then the military, followed by the semiconductor rush and today the internet. At each iteration, people flooded into the region to work in lucrative jobs and push out the farmers that lived here for generations.

There may have been a larger creative scene in SF, but it never was as rich and diverse as people think they remember it to be. 13 years ago, the entire eastern 1/2 of SF was abandoned warehouses and homeless encampments. I mean, potrero hill was where you could go buy your coke, it was full of drug dealers! Now look at that neighborhood.

But ultimately, SF is a small city, not that diverse and lacks many of the things that make paying NYC prices worth it for NYers. That has been true for its entire history and I don't think that will change.

However, if creative industries are your thing, and what you crave, move to LA or NYC. That's where you'll find all of that, from amazing artists to bands that are amazing, even if they're playing at your local pub.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#139
post #123
post #64

The boomers did everything they could to construct the housing supply and ensure their children would be unable to afford to live near them. Hope they enjoy their blessed property values!

Did you mean constrict? So you feel that an entire generation of humans conspired against the well being of yours deliberately... just because? I think you might want to consider developing a more nuanced and less reductive view of things.

Yeah, they didn't mean to restrict supply to their kids, just to 'those' people...

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#140

After recently getting back from Portland, it couldn't be more painfully obvious that the entire problem comes down to housing. They are building new (affordable!) apartments there like nothing I've ever seen. You literally can't walk two or three blocks without seeing a construction crane. And the local culture reflects that. So many business that simply could not exist in SF were thriving due to the cheap labor and…

For context, the cheapest market price condo for sale in SF I could find today is a micro studio in SoMa (~260 sq ft) for $445k!

Damn!

I've got a 2000 sqft condo in Atlanta with 20 foot ceilings that costs less than that.

The land is utilized much better here. I'm in an eight story converted factory (each condo is two stories) from the 1800s. If we just had single story homes, prices would be a nightmare.

I work for a tech company based in sf making the same wages as my peers in sf do. It's not scary to leave sf for elsewhere.

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