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If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

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Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#61

Post by simook »

aphextron wrote: post #30

After recently getting back from Portland, it couldn't be more painfully obvious that the entire problem comes down to housing. They are building new (affordable!) apartments there like nothing I've ever seen. You literally can't walk two or three blocks without seeing a construction crane. And the local culture reflects that. So many business that simply could not exist in SF were thriving due to the cheap labor and…

As exciting as this is to see. It's hard for me to watch Portland change into a different city. I think the hardest aspect right now is the amount of trash that is being thrown aside in the roads, parks, and greenways. I was born and raised in this area and it's been tough for me to witness this beautiful city being treated that way. If you want to help clean up Portland, I strongly recommend volunteering with the SOLVE Organization.

I hope Portland will continue to be a beautiful city for my children to enjoy.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#62

Post by toast0 »

karmakaze wrote: post #3
sampo wrote: post #2

> It’s not my fault she’s gone, that all 12 of them are gone. Normal. People move all the time. Nothing I could have done. Except allow building more homes. Vote for politicians who'd have allowed building more homes. My guess is, the author has voted against her own interests. Which one is more important, keeping the "charm" of houses and neighborhoods where you cannot afford to live anyway, or keeping those 12 your…

I think it's too late for that. Adding more reasonable priced homes just means that companies currently looking outside the valley can now continue to grow there so there will continuously be a shortage and thus high pricing and wages. It's going to take a significant bubble burst to reset it.

This is like adding road capacity. If you want cheap and plentiful housing or free flowing traffic at all hours, you're going to have to build ahead of demand. If you're building to satisfy demand, you're not likely to get ahead of demand, but you may be able to build to keep up, so it doesn't get worse, or so it gets worse slower.

For San Francisco, the rate of new unit construction was always too little, but in the 2008 housing crisis, construction stopped and was slow to restart; that would have been a great time to get ahead of demand -- labor and materials were less expensive (because construction was slowed everywhere), but there was risk that the prices would stay low, and difficulties with construction financing.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#63

Post by kaikai »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #15

>Several months ago, she had made the difficult decision to move back onto a small corner of her parents beach-town property, after her urban East Bay house became waterlogged during the rainstorms of 2016. We had to move her out over a weekend, after the mold took half the furniture and gave her roommate pneumonia in both lungs. I touched swollen blisters of stagnant rainwater pulsing on her walls. After emailing th…

They probably broke their lease by moving out, and the landlord sued them for it. Fighting requires court dates, legal fees, and time that people who are barely holding down jobs often don’t have. It’s easy to lose bullshit cases that any rational person can see shouldn’t be lost.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#65

Post by graeme »

xefer wrote: post #59
aphextron wrote: post #30

After recently getting back from Portland, it couldn't be more painfully obvious that the entire problem comes down to housing. They are building new (affordable!) apartments there like nothing I've ever seen. You literally can't walk two or three blocks without seeing a construction crane. And the local culture reflects that. So many business that simply could not exist in SF were thriving due to the cheap labor and…

It’s also possible that there is such a pent-up demand for housing in San Francisco that no amount of building could realistically do enough to make things truly affordable.

"There's so much crime that no amount of crime reduction will eliminate it"

"There's so much corruption that no amount of anti-corruption drives will eliminate it"

"There's so much alcoholism that no amount of alcoholism reduction will eliminate alcoholism"

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#66

Post by davidw »

simook wrote: post #61
aphextron wrote: post #30

After recently getting back from Portland, it couldn't be more painfully obvious that the entire problem comes down to housing. They are building new (affordable!) apartments there like nothing I've ever seen. You literally can't walk two or three blocks without seeing a construction crane. And the local culture reflects that. So many business that simply could not exist in SF were thriving due to the cheap labor and…

As exciting as this is to see. It's hard for me to watch Portland change into a different city. I think the hardest aspect right now is the amount of trash that is being thrown aside in the roads, parks, and greenways. I was born and raised in this area and it's been tough for me to witness this beautiful city being treated that way. If you want to help clean up Portland, I strongly recommend volunteering with the SO…

I definitely hope we can keep Oregon 'green'!

> I hope Portland will continue to be a beautiful city for my children to enjoy.

To bring it back to housing, Portland might be a place your children can enjoy because they could actually afford to live there, unlike much of the bay area.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#67

Post by davidw »

aphextron wrote: post #30

After recently getting back from Portland, it couldn't be more painfully obvious that the entire problem comes down to housing. They are building new (affordable!) apartments there like nothing I've ever seen. You literally can't walk two or three blocks without seeing a construction crane. And the local culture reflects that. So many business that simply could not exist in SF were thriving due to the cheap labor and…

Here are statistics showing that, indeed, rental prices are leveling off in Portland because supply has been added:

https://oregoneconomicanalysis.com/2019/01/29/oregons-housin...

BTW, anyone who wants to see more homes and more housing options in Oregon should vocally support HB 2001. Our YIMBY group here in Bend just had a meeting with our state rep about it and it went pretty well. It's a practical, market-based approach to add housing, and add to the diversity of housing.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#68

Post by true_tuna »

xefer wrote: post #59
aphextron wrote: post #30

After recently getting back from Portland, it couldn't be more painfully obvious that the entire problem comes down to housing. They are building new (affordable!) apartments there like nothing I've ever seen. You literally can't walk two or three blocks without seeing a construction crane. And the local culture reflects that. So many business that simply could not exist in SF were thriving due to the cheap labor and…

It’s also possible that there is such a pent-up demand for housing in San Francisco that no amount of building could realistically do enough to make things truly affordable.

That is correct. It’s unlikely we could ever bring the prices down. But if we build new housing for every new job we create, we can at least stop the bleeding and keep it from getting worse. And it will get worse. More people keep coming because there are jobs here. The problem will keep getting worse till we build enough to keep up with migration in.

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#69

Post by markbnj »

> I visited Seattle for the first time a month ago and was warned someone might throw a bottle at my car for my California plates.

This same crap was literally in the air almost 30 years ago when I lived in LA and traveled to Seattle and Portland regularly on business. Californians were responsible for the traffic on the 5, and not being able to get into restaurants, etc. etc.

Also...

> There is an apocalyptic amount of people moving into California, and no one blames them for the overcrowding and the shifting culture.

Really?

Re: If San Francisco is so great, why is everyone I love leaving?

#70

Post by ummonk »

specialp wrote: post #20

Unfortunately this is the circle of life in high cost living areas. The NYC area has been expensive for a long period of time. SF now has become even more expensive and this phenomenon is newer to the area than NYC. The people I grew up with had the following outcomes: * Got a high paying job and stayed (not many) * Tried to make it here, but ended up moving to NC or FL * Work lower paying jobs dual income and strugg…

NYC isn’t nearly as expensive. I know people who have bought affordable houses in places like New Jersey and have reasonable commutes. That just isn’t possible in the Bay Area.
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