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One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

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Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#271

Post by maxerickson »

hinkley wrote: post #189
kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, it is already illegal for genetic information to be used as a qualification for employment. (a) Discrimination Based on Genetic Information.--It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer-- (1) to fail or refuse to hire, or to discharge, any employee, or otherwise to discriminate against any employee with respect to the compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment of the emplo…

> In the US, it is already illegal for genetic information to be used as a qualification for employment. No. In the US, it is currently illegal for genetic information to be used as a qualification for employment. Your DNA never changes. Once it's on record it's on record. This isn't like prohibition where as long as you quit before the law comes into effect you are safe. If there is ever a future time you can be pun…

If some future hell has us ruining people because of their DNA, it's not gonna be opt in. At least not for very long.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#272

Post by phs318u »

freeflight wrote: post #183
JoeSmithson wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would it let you frame convenient suspects? Surely you would need to place that suspects DNA at the scene, in which case you already have it...? Where does the database come into this?

> Where does the database come into this? "The scientists fabricated blood and saliva samples containing DNA from a person other than the donor of the blood and saliva. They also showed that if they had access to a DNA profile in a database, they could construct a sample of DNA to match that profile without obtaining any tissue from that person." [0] [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/science/18dna.html

> if they had access to a DNA profile in a database, they could construct a sample of DNA to match that profile

Oh wow. Really??? Any experts in this field reading this? Would love to hear someone with pertinent authority tell us this isn't true. (Please don't be true)

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#273

Post by Scoundreller »

maxerickson wrote: post #270
Scoundreller wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a certain Chinese person recently learned, you can start a trip in Country A, get arrested on a stopover in Country B on your way to Country C, accused of breaking the laws of Country D because you (allegedly) did business in Country E through a subsidiary in Country F. I’m worried about getting deported to Saudi Arabia (never been) because I drank alcohol in my home country, but happen to stopover in a country th…

Which countries are you currently not flying into? I ask because it would help us gauge how worried you are.

Well, the US is #1 by GDP, China is #2 and Canada (the pushover) is #10. Saudi Arabia is #18, so going by the evidence, us alcohol enjoyers should consider staying out of countries with #28 rank GDP or less, as they could fall over for S. Arabia.

All based on one crude comparison between countries. But you don't see the USA arresting too many people for violating other country's laws.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#274

Post by andrei_says_ »

AuthorizedCust wrote: post #109
andrei_says_ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s an unfortunate consequence of how the dna test provider treats everyone’s data. It’s incredibly empowering for abuse and completely disrespectful to the individual. The assymetry is staggering.

What if a court compels the analysis or data sharing?

The fbi has is own database. Of course having everyone’s dna will help them solve a few (one?) more crimes. At what cost?

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#275

Post by zaphirplane »

ivalm wrote: post #173
JoeSmithson wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would it let you frame convenient suspects? Surely you would need to place that suspects DNA at the scene, in which case you already have it...? Where does the database come into this?

Right now you do not have a convenient way to force your target to submit to a DNA test. This way you can frame someone by placing their DNA at the crime scene and then having it "discovered" using DNA testing company data.

Because there is a line when framing people never to be crossed ;) come on throw in a shoe print,a witness, fake signature. something extra

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#276

Post by noonespecial »

maxerickson wrote: post #268
noonespecial wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right up until that crime happens to be homosexuality (oh you meant western values crimes...) Or you can't get a job because you're closely related to a felon. Or a loan because you are closely related to someone who filed for bankruptcy. I could go on. There's more "ors" here than on a viking raiding ship.

The underlying presumption here is that there is business value in establishing the genetic link. If there's a real link between genetics and bankruptcy, maybe we should figure that shit out (with the idea of doing pleasant, voluntary, educational interventions). If there isn't and banks use the info anyway, someone will make a good business out of ignoring the information. Which isn't to say I approve of the privacy…

Good idea. We handled that so well with race, we should start right away.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#277

Post by heyjudy »

ptero wrote: post #119
dangrossman wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and their families That's how a local cold murder case was solved last year. DNA from a 25-year-old crime scene was run against the samples in one of these genealogy databases, and they found a familial match. Police set up a sting to covertly collect DNA from that person's immediate family. They got their DNA match with a brother's water bottle police took from a trash can after he worked a DJ gig at a school. htt…

Total surveillance or global DNA law enforcement database would solve many murders and prevent wrongful convictions. However, it would also give many opportunities for framing convenient suspects and "encouraging" confessions. I am sure your case was above board but, being born in a totalitarian state, I do not trust law enforcement too much and prefer to err on the side of not solving some crimes. My 2c.

Yes, the panopticon is a dangerous ideal. :/ Given enough technological progress, if everyone's DNA were kept in a database, that's a juicy target for any numbers of crimes, misuse, violence, privacy invasion and stalking, i.e., hackers break-in in order to selectively extort rich people with engineered diseases (sounds like a Black Mirror script).

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#278

Post by lostlogin »

phs318u wrote: post #272
freeflight wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where does the database come into this? "The scientists fabricated blood and saliva samples containing DNA from a person other than the donor of the blood and saliva. They also showed that if they had access to a DNA profile in a database, they could construct a sample of DNA to match that profile without obtaining any tissue from that person." [0] [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/science/18dna.html

> if they had access to a DNA profile in a database, they could construct a sample of DNA to match that profile Oh wow. Really??? Any experts in this field reading this? Would love to hear someone with pertinent authority tell us this isn't true. (Please don't be true)

There links in that NY Times article and they look like reasonable sources.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#279

Post by ehsankia »

skellera wrote: post #261
LinuxBender wrote: post #13

The term "At Home" is very disingenuous. Spitting in a tube at home and then mailing your DNA to a lab is not At Home. A proper at-home test would be a kit that allows you to decode your DNA at home without a single strand DNA or byte of data landing on a system that does not belong to you.

Are the services that ancestry and ‘23 and me’ do provided at a loss and made up with the data or is it profitable? Why aren’t there companies out there doing this at a higher cost without the privacy implications? Just give the user their data and decoding software that is regularly updated with current information. Seems like low end machines are about $100,000 so it seems like this would work? I would pay 3-4 time…

Where are the privacy implications, most of these privacy "breaches" are just opt-in features, which you don't have to sign up for.

Even this one, which is the most extreme by so far:

> While the FBI does not have the ability to freely browse genetic profiles in the library

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#280

Post by ehsankia »

twoquestions wrote: post #18
wonderwonder wrote: post #4

I am torn on this, as on the one hand it does violate privacy to a very large degree and provide massive power to the government. Things I am very much against. On the other hand, essentially all this does is provide law enforcement a means to potentially quickly identify violent criminals via physical traits as opposed to the contents of their mind such as forcing someone to unlock a phone which I am very against. A…

`law enforcement a means to potentially quickly identify violent criminals` Go ahead and replace "law enforcement" with political group you don't like, and "violent criminals" for a group you do.

Giving data to the FBI, and giving data to any random political group are very very different things. This straw man can probably be seen from space.
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