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One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

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Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#41

Post by guntars »

tomsthumb wrote: post #35
ribosometronome wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the company did not disclose this in massive font to potential customers ahead of time, then I do think this company should very quickly go out of business. Disclose what? The point of most of these services is that you are adding yourself to a searchable database where you can find relations. The FBI seems to be using the service for the explicit reason it exists. I'm very uncomfortable with the thought that one…

There’s a meaningful difference between the government getting a warrant to look for a specific person’s DNA and searching everyone’s DNA to see if it’s a match. Why should the government get to digitally “stop and frisk” three hundred thousand people because they have a hair sample from a murder scene?

You talk about meaningful differences, but then lump a search in a database with stop and frisk. Either everyone is allowed to use hyperbole or no one is - you can’t have it both ways.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#43

Post by astura »

tomsthumb wrote: post #35
ribosometronome wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the company did not disclose this in massive font to potential customers ahead of time, then I do think this company should very quickly go out of business. Disclose what? The point of most of these services is that you are adding yourself to a searchable database where you can find relations. The FBI seems to be using the service for the explicit reason it exists. I'm very uncomfortable with the thought that one…

There’s a meaningful difference between the government getting a warrant to look for a specific person’s DNA and searching everyone’s DNA to see if it’s a match. Why should the government get to digitally “stop and frisk” three hundred thousand people because they have a hair sample from a murder scene?

Same reason the government should be allowed to search Facebook for information on a person of interest, or use the whitepages, or search public records such as property records, or use Google to search the web. They don't have any more access than a normal user, so they don't need a warrant. They are acting just like a member of the public and get the exact same results you or I would get if we used that site. If it's available for a member of the general population, it's available to law enforcement without a warrant. That's the way it's always been.

People are putting their genetic information into a database in order to be searchable by their genetic information. If they have a problem with being searchable by their genetic information, then they shouldn't upload their genetic information into publicly searchable databases.

>The Family Tree database is free to access and can be used by anyone with a DNA profile to upload, not just paying customers.

>Officials at Family Tree said customers could decide to opt out of any familial matching, which would prevent their profiles from being searchable by the FBI. But by doing so, customers would also be unable to use one of the key features of the service: finding possible relatives through DNA testing.

>In December 2018, the company changed its terms of service to allow law enforcement to use the database to identify suspects of “a violent crime,” such as homicide or sexual assault, and to identify the remains of a victim.

>In a statement, Greenspan, the president and founder of Gene by Gene, Family Tree’s parent company, said the firm would not be violating its terms of privacy to its customers, despite the FBI’s access.

>“We came to the conclusion that if law enforcement created accounts, with the same level of access to the database as the standard FamilyTreeDNA user, they would not be violating user privacy and confidentiality,” Greenspan said.

>In a statement, company officials told BuzzFeed News that despite the FBI’s access to the database, agents would not be able to obtain more information than what is accessible to normal users of the service.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#44

Post by throwaway66666 »

emiliobumachar wrote: post #37
twoquestions wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

`law enforcement a means to potentially quickly identify violent criminals` Go ahead and replace "law enforcement" with political group you don't like, and "violent criminals" for a group you do.

I don't get it. What political groups rely heavily on not being identified? Most political groups have leaders whose identity is public knowledge.

It means you will be unidentified by political groups. EG let's say a right wing goverment in France finding all the gypsies in Paris.

Or a life insurance corporation seeing that you have predisposition for heart disease, and refusing to provide services to you.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#45

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

twoquestions wrote: post #18
wonderwonder wrote: post #4

I am torn on this, as on the one hand it does violate privacy to a very large degree and provide massive power to the government. Things I am very much against. On the other hand, essentially all this does is provide law enforcement a means to potentially quickly identify violent criminals via physical traits as opposed to the contents of their mind such as forcing someone to unlock a phone which I am very against. A…

`law enforcement a means to potentially quickly identify violent criminals` Go ahead and replace "law enforcement" with political group you don't like, and "violent criminals" for a group you do.

With regards to political groups, what would DNA tell you that their Facebook profile and network wouldn't?

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#47

Post by rabboRubble »

mimixco wrote: post #3

All of the at-home DNA testing companies include this in their license agreements, including the ability to use your DNA in case any of your relatives might be accused of a crime. This is one case in which you definitely want to read the license before you sign up... then throw that test tube in the trash!

I know I'm not a serial rapist &/or murderer.

I hope my family members are not. The question is: what do I value more? A society without serial rapist killers or my family? I guess I prefer a society without that sort of nonsense, so even if my DNA is used to ensnare a relative, and they were doing horrible stuff, I'd be heartbroken that a family member had gone so astray but grateful they were unable to hurt anybody else.

See the investigative work using shirttail relative DNA to isolate the Golden State Killer.

That said, do I want law enforcement to have willy nilly access to DNA to, for example, chase down littering? No, IMO that is an inappropriate level of intrusion for the societal problem. Do I trust government to exercise good sense with these tools? I fear not so much. But I guess we will get used to the intrusions just as we have become accustom to the gov hoovering up all our communications metadata to find terrorists.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#48

Post by shostack »

23487t398o wrote: post #10
wonderwonder wrote: post #4

I am torn on this, as on the one hand it does violate privacy to a very large degree and provide massive power to the government. Things I am very much against. On the other hand, essentially all this does is provide law enforcement a means to potentially quickly identify violent criminals via physical traits as opposed to the contents of their mind such as forcing someone to unlock a phone which I am very against. A…

> potentially quickly identify violent criminals via physical traits Western civilization requires warrants supported by probable cause, because history has proved the hard way that those are not the kind of people the state would be identifying if left to its own devices.

Forgot to add "for now."

The risk with this sort of thing is you never know which way the political winds will blow.

Case in point, I thought we progressed to the point where concentration camps were inconceivable in America given our past history with them nationally and internationally. And yet here we are.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#49

Post by usaphp »

throwaway66666 wrote: post #44
emiliobumachar wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. What political groups rely heavily on not being identified? Most political groups have leaders whose identity is public knowledge.

It means you will be unidentified by political groups. EG let's say a right wing goverment in France finding all the gypsies in Paris. Or a life insurance corporation seeing that you have predisposition for heart disease, and refusing to provide services to you.

> Or a life insurance corporation seeing that you have predisposition for heart disease, and refusing to provide services to you.

I don't get your example. It's a private company and has a right to decide what risks it should take...Unless there is a government control over life insurance rules - why would an insurance company risk losing money? It's the same as charging an 80 year old man higher premium than a 20 year old.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#50

Post by int_19h »

tomsthumb wrote: post #35
ribosometronome wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the company did not disclose this in massive font to potential customers ahead of time, then I do think this company should very quickly go out of business. Disclose what? The point of most of these services is that you are adding yourself to a searchable database where you can find relations. The FBI seems to be using the service for the explicit reason it exists. I'm very uncomfortable with the thought that one…

There’s a meaningful difference between the government getting a warrant to look for a specific person’s DNA and searching everyone’s DNA to see if it’s a match. Why should the government get to digitally “stop and frisk” three hundred thousand people because they have a hair sample from a murder scene?

Why is matching DNA analogous to "stop and frisk"? If the govt doesn't actually get access to the raw DNA data, but only the records that matched the sample they submitted, it sounds like a very narrow tool that doesn't infringe anyone's privacy without a valid reason (i.e. if there's a match).

I mean, fundamentally, how is it different from the police asking a hotel administrator whether John Doe stayed there?

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