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New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

forbrukerradet.no

271–280 of 463 posts

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#271
Scannning the comments here it does not appear anyone is considering the cost of network activity and bandwidth.

The user is subsidising the tracking.

Google does not pay for the cost of the user's internet access or her mobile data plan. In some cases, the user might only need an offline map however instead she is coaxed into accessing the same map over a computer network again and again, day after day, year after year. The cost of that access is carried by the user, not Google. Multiply this cost over millions of users.

Users are paying, in many cases unnecessarily, to send tracking information to Google.

When Google coaxes a user into accepting the settings that Google prefers (24/7/365 tracking), users are not merely agreeing to be tracked in exchange for something, a price not easily measurable and thus perceived as "free". Users are agreeing to pay for the costs of that tracking, namely the transmission costs to get the tracking data to Google. Those prices are measurable, though few users might be measuring them.

Of course users are not opening an application and hitting a "send" button everyday to do this task; it is not conscious spending. They are permitting Google to do it for them in the background, using the user's CPU, memory, storage and bandwidth.

None of those resources are "free". Whilst users may have generous amounts of privacy and personal data to trade away in exchange for some perceived benefit, users did not have to pay for those "assets". They might not put much thought into whether each exchange was truly necessary.

On the contrary, users must pay for computing resources and internet access. It stands to reason that they might not wish to trade away those acquired assets where not truly necessary.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#272
post #4

I tried using Google Maps without search history turned on. It's basically a downgraded version. They tied saving locations with the search history, so it won't let you search for friends' contacts, set a home address, etc. Is it on purpose? I don't know, but I find it weird that they would tie some unrelated features together. Why does setting a Home address require search history?

Additionally hypocritical since turning location history back on will restore your home address — Google's been keeping it all along and just denying you access to it.

Wow this really does make it worse. Google is intentionally inconveniencing users who turn off location tracking, not for any technical or privacy reason but just to try to get them to turn it back on.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silicon Valley isn't just a place, it's a mindset and set of values. I deal with "Silicon Valley" businesses in London. It's spreading. Not sure why you're making such a big deal about this.

Curious how you would define the set of values. Microsoft has dramatically different values from Google, so much so that Google's company values were in many ways explicitly a dig at Microsoft.

How would you distinguish them now?

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you work at Google on the maps team? Do you know how the maps backend works or what the codebase of the app looks like? Do you have special expertise in the area? Let me guess: No. Yet not only are you so certain that it's hard, you're willing assign all sorts of benevolent motives to Google.

Yet not only are you so certain that it's hard, you're willing assign all sorts of benevolent motives to Google.

Google would change the rate at which your terminal cursor flashes if it could find a way to monetize it.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#276
My list of degooglifying actions:

* switch default search engine to DuckDuckGo (can still use !s bang when one wants to see what Google has)

* use tracking blocker (uBlock origin, BlockBear on iOS)

* use anonymous/private/porn mode browsing most of the time (except for sites I actually want to be logged in permanently)

* use Zoho as a replacement for shared Google docs

* use Youtube either in private window, and/or download content with youtube-dl

* use Apple Maps or OpenStreetMaps instead of Google maps, though still revert to Google maps sometimes. It's good. (But never log in, and don't use the apps).

* long ago switched to different email for main email, and forwarded gmail account to it (nobody uses it anymore). (In fact, I use a catch-all domain now (very easy to set up), and a fresh email for basically every account. Quite handy.)

* for contacts, photos, etc. I use Apple's built-in stuff. I do trust Apple a bit more (and it's a different business model; quite evidently unfortunately when you look at recent iPhone prices.)

All in all, I think a fairly degooglified life is eminently possible.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, let Prime lapse a year or two ago as well. Moving my business to other companies now.

What competitors are you using?

Walmart.com has stepped it up recently. Still a long way to go, and I doubt their intentions are any better, but competition is healthy.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#278
post #6

They constantly berate you to deactivate no tracking preferences on google maps. When you're aware of this fact you start seeing it everywhere, not just on google. For example, on Pinterest they will berate you to sign up using highlighted buttons on land, and the x button is out of the way on the top right corner. This end result is due to product managers/devs looking at conversion rates and optimizing for whatever…

This end result is due to product managers/devs looking at conversion rates and optimizing for whatever their metric of success is Just wait until the product managers and devs are taken out of the loop and A/B testing becomes automated A/B...X/Y/Z testing through AI. Web interfaces will start to look like those crazy AI-generated YouTube videos. Anything to feed the shareholders.

My big question is whether that sort of deranged AI-output look will work when it arrives. It does for Youtube videos, but they're both aimed at children and searching for maximum intensity (via both character recognition and zaniness) to hold attention.

As is, I strongly suspect we're already over-testing on frontends.

First, because frequent change has a cost in user retention, and so does instability. I get A/B tested enough that I notice it happening, or notice that instructions I give for a program don't reflect what other people on the same device are seeing. And since I use multiple Gmail accounts, I've also had the experience of different accounts falling into different branches of a significant UI test - it was a horrible and aggravating experience.

Second, because isolated tests are a terrible way of judging aggregate effects. They're not necessarily run with an eye on "irrelevant" stats, and they're almost never run against a clean, single-design baseline. (Also, they're frequently run with grotesque statistical errors like stopping tests at significance...) The risk, then, is ending up with a hodge-podge of features that produced 3% improvement on some metric but did nothing for overall value. Newsletter signups designed to improve subscriptions, which destroyed retention. Buttons locked into arms races where they improve clickthrough by cannibalizing one another's traffic. Evolved-in-isolation pages that get good responses but decrease brand recognition, and so on.

None of that means aimless AI testing won't happen; the combination of buzzword appeal and hands-off profit is probably too good to pass up. But I expect it won't be as valuable as people expect because it feeds into all the mistakes we're making already.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#279
post #180
post #4

I tried using Google Maps without search history turned on. It's basically a downgraded version. They tied saving locations with the search history, so it won't let you search for friends' contacts, set a home address, etc. Is it on purpose? I don't know, but I find it weird that they would tie some unrelated features together. Why does setting a Home address require search history?

> Is it on purpose? I don't know, but I find it weird that they would tie some unrelated features together. Why does setting a Home address require search history? I work at Google but not on Maps, opinions are my own. I don't know if this is why they did it that way, but it wouldn't surprise me if the reason was merely that 99.9% of users opt in to location sharing and the developers didn't feel it useful to spend t…

All I can think when I see someone willingly admit to working at Google is "ew what is that thing."

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#280
post #276

My list of degooglifying actions: * switch default search engine to DuckDuckGo (can still use !s bang when one wants to see what Google has) * use tracking blocker (uBlock origin, BlockBear on iOS) * use anonymous/private/porn mode browsing most of the time (except for sites I actually want to be logged in permanently) * use Zoho as a replacement for shared Google docs * use Youtube either in private window, and/or d…

Same here, but I added Nextcloud in the basement for dropbox/google-drive/caldav/carddav/webmail.

I do still have an Android phone (Lineage), I tried without play services... I gave up after 1 day.

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