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New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

forbrukerradet.no

181–190 of 463 posts

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#181

Ethically I think the good old days of software products were superior to the current days of software services . Services are paid for by subscription or ads or selling data, so that they are forced to optimize for continued use. Products are sold as-is, with the hope that they are useful enough that enough people will buy them once and own it forever. It should work this way: you spend N months making a useful prod…

Having worked on desktop software, I much prefer the services model.

There were endless conversations about a support matrix and patching older versions for customers who refused to upgrade. We were hamstrung by old design decisions and backporting fixes making any change onerous. We couldn’t add value for new customers as fast because we spent a majority of the time supporting older customers. Now those older customers probably preferred it that way. They had software that worked (until a new vulnerability was discovered at least) and that they had paid for and liked. But as the decades (literally software that old) dragged on they became like technical debt that we couldn’t detach.

As a developer, the incentives were clear. If I’m spending half my time supporting people who had already paid and weren’t likely to pay again, then I can be more productive elsewhere, creating more additional value at a company that had a services model. So I left.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems pretty reasonable to me, although perhaps they named the switch poorly. My guess is that the product manager is trying to provide a single simple "privacy fiend" setting. You apparently want fine-grained privacy controls ("save my personal locations, but not my search history"). It's reasonable to want that, but it seems awfully entitled (not you, but many others on this thread) to demand it. Especially si…

This is disingenuous and unreasonable. The setting is unnecessarily restrictive. It's simple: "Do you want us to store your data on our servers?" Answering "no" should mean you store it locally, not that you don't store it at all. If you tell Google not to save your search history on their servers, they just disable it completely, when they could just save it locally. This is nowhere near a product problem. The setti…

It's simple: "Do you want us to store your data on our servers?"

Why don't you just build your own mapping software then if its all so easy?

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#183
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Silicon Valley has no intention of retraining itself in any manner. Historically, no industry, once became major, intended to retrain itself to be more positive to the society. If any improvement happened, it was forced from outside.

So who was forcing the many famous Victorian philanthropist industrialists to build their railway and model villages, with free schools, hospitals and more for workers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_village

I'm not seeing the philanthropy. They were trying to obtain effective workers without being destroyed by angry outside forces:

> The Swing Riots of 1830 highlighted poor housing in the countryside, ill health and immorality and landowners had a responsibility to provide cottages with basic sanitation. The best landlords provided accommodation but many adopted a paternalistic attitude when they built model dwellings and imposed their own standards on the tenants charging low rents but paying low wages.[3]

Also: Company Towns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#184
post #45

This dark pattern seems to be spreading. Amazon recently pushed out an update to their (beta last I knew) web app that allows you to use their smile.amazon.com charity donation through the app. But in order to turn that on, you have to turn on all the notifications the app has, including their rather constant pushes of "deals I may be interested in". They're holding you hostage to their notifications because "it's fo…

Somewhat more sinister, I think, is that they added a TTL on the Amazon Smile opt-in. Now, you must re-opt-in every 90 (I think) days. Fair bet that this small change substantially hurts the effectiveness of this charity and drives a whole bunch of money back to Amazon.

Does Prime also require a re-opt-in every 90 days? oh....

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#185
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As manipulative as Google can be, we should keep in mind that Google Maps is incredibly useful and we get to use it for "free". Yes we pay with our data and privacy and Google can do a better job of making that transparent but we can only get so upset when we don't get the full version of a product when we don't want to give our data.

Yeah no, I rather pay a fee for that

A paid version would be great but Google would have to figure out how to judge traffic levels without location data.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#186
post #104
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the native app, albeit in beta, so you may not have it yet. You can turn on smile functionality in the app, but you must turn on all notifications. "Also what does Amazon have to do with SV?" Amazon is part of metaphorical Silicon Valley. So's Microsoft, for instance. Metaphorical Silicon Valley is too large to fit in literal Silicon Valley.

Is IBM included in metaphorical Silicon Valley? What about Expedia? Or Concur? Seems very arbitrary. Is metaphorical Silicon Valley only applicable to negative actions of tech companies or does it apply to all big tech companies? I searched for “metaphorical Silicon Valley” and didn’t see anything relevant. Also how did you get into this beta and where is the actual option? Is it under notifications? I’d prefer to us…

Amazon was founded on Kleiner Perkins money. That's Silicon Valley.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#187
post #130
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't do anything in particular to get the beta; the offer got pushed to me. As for SV, the inability to draw a rigid, precise line around a phenomenon doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Life's fuzzy.

So when you say SV Company you mean high-growth technology leveraging company that puts profit first? I’m honestly struggling to understand how you apply SV to a company that is not physically from SV, or at least very nearby.

Amazon was founded on Kleiner Perkins money. That's Silicon Valley.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#188
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Silicon Valley has no intention of retraining itself in any manner. Historically, no industry, once became major, intended to retrain itself to be more positive to the society. If any improvement happened, it was forced from outside.

So who was forcing the many famous Victorian philanthropist industrialists to build their railway and model villages, with free schools, hospitals and more for workers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_village

That was definitely for their benefit of their workers rather than the greater society, and on the whole doesn't seem much different than the larger Silicon Valley companies of today.

Take Facebook for example. They have a large utopian-esque campus for the benefits of their workers. In this campus they have bikes for getting around, free bars and restaurants (and an ice cream shop), an on campus doctor, bicycle repair shop, and in fact have somehow managed to convince CBP and USCIS to visit their campus to conduct Global Entry and Visa interviews instead of the workers having to travel to an office.

Couple this with the free employee shuttle buses for employees to travel from their homes to the campus, and it seems very much like the "Model village" you described.

EDIT: Here is a link to an article (with photo tour) of their Menlo Park campus: https://www.businessinsider.com/facebooks-disneyland-inspire...

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#189
post #107
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit too, they cripple their mobile website to force you into their mobile app and hence your data.

They are getting more and more aggressive about it too. Recently they add a full modal covering content and forcing you to “choose to view in app or browser”.

It's not aggressive, it's a multi-flank stochastic attack. They have about 5 different UIs for pushing you to the app, with different shapes, wording and locations on screen, and they cycle between them, to stop you from learning habits like "just smash the lower left corner on the first page load"

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#190
FTA: "Bundling of services and lack of granular choices - If the user wants features such as Google Assistant and photos sorted by location, Google turns on invasive location tracking."

I unplugged my google home precisely for this reason. It wouldn't operate with all kinds of web and location tracking turned on. And when I turned them off it would only respond with something along the lines of "you have to turn on for google home to work properly."

The hell I do. Amazon doesn't require me to turn stuff like that on to work just fine.

It was blatant and a bit nauseating. After that I understood the google-free movement very well.

I would still like an all-on-site voice assistant that respects privacy.

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