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New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

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Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#131

Post by Crespyl »

ingenieroariel wrote: post #91

I have had to visit the #nixos channel in Freenode (IRC) lately on a computer with all tracking disabled and the Recaptcha that is usually just click and continue becomes a multi-minute endeavor finding street signs, cars and buses. You really get punished if you opt out of tracking.

I'm sure this isn't done, but I do have to wonder if it'd be possible to identify a user by their unique behaviors when interacting with the extended Recaptcha puzzles. Something like writing style analysis, but applied to patterns of mouse movement, click timings and positions, or recognition rates for particular types of problems.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#132

Post by delusional »

dddddaviddddd wrote: post #38
levesque wrote: post #4

I tried using Google Maps without search history turned on. It's basically a downgraded version. They tied saving locations with the search history, so it won't let you search for friends' contacts, set a home address, etc. Is it on purpose? I don't know, but I find it weird that they would tie some unrelated features together. Why does setting a Home address require search history?

Additionally hypocritical since turning location history back on will restore your home address — Google's been keeping it all along and just denying you access to it.

Even worse. Using navigation to your home address, they will actually ask you to "Save your home address", but then pop up a permission to track your search history.

Want to use the assistant to turn on your lights? You better believe that requires the huge "Web and App activity" which also includes location.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#133

Post by hesarenu »

aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #78

Whenever you tap a link in the iOS YouTube app, it starts nagging you to download Chrome, or continue with the old boring Safari... There's a pre-checked switch at the bottom of the dialog that says "Ask me which app to use every time". Now, even if you uncheck the switch and choose Safari, they will only let you off the hook for around a day; after this cooldown period you're "offered" to download Chrome yet again,…

Chrome is just a safari skin. There is no freedom to choose browser render in iOS.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#134

Post by sephoric »

Ethically I think the good old days of software products were superior to the current days of software services. Services are paid for by subscription or ads or selling data, so that they are forced to optimize for continued use. Products are sold as-is, with the hope that they are useful enough that enough people will buy them once and own it forever.

It should work this way: you spend N months making a useful product that fills a real need, start selling it, and ideally make just enough money to cover the time you spent working on it. As soon as you start selling it and money comes in, you start working on another product. This has flaws though. You have to have the cash up front to pay your own bills for the first N months. And you risk not making up the time you spent.

But what I see happening is worse: people make products that sell, get greedy over the money they can make, and milk that product to death, first by paid upgrades (which isn't inherently unethical) but then turning to subscriptions or free but selling you to ad- or data-companies.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#136

Post by beezischillin »

kache_ wrote: post #6

They constantly berate you to deactivate no tracking preferences on google maps. When you're aware of this fact you start seeing it everywhere, not just on google. For example, on Pinterest they will berate you to sign up using highlighted buttons on land, and the x button is out of the way on the top right corner. This end result is due to product managers/devs looking at conversion rates and optimizing for whatever…

Same goes for trying to turn on Voice Match (and the voice activated OK, Google), a feature that's supposed to take a snapshot of your voice and activate the assistant, like "Hey, Siri!". They will force you to activate: 1. web/activity history, 2. saving all your voice requests to the Google and they push you to activate Location History.

While Voice Match learning the sound of your voice sounds like a completely local task, they will force you to keep a history of all your voice commands, searches and activity. Voice activation and match won't even work without that on. Even tho the assistant works just fine if you leave those off.

Not to mention all the rest of these that happen, they even push for these during your first phone activation.

I got my first Android phone this year after taking a very long break from Google phones in 2014, due to getting fed up with how much of a mess Android still was around version 5 and Google's unwillingness to fix the issues so I ended up switching to iOS for years. Now I decided to switch my second phone to an Android purely out of curiosity to see what's been happening to the platform and all these creepy-ass prompts in version 9 don't instil much confidence.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#137

Post by balls187 »

tossaccount123 wrote: post #50
benschulz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude makes me so off the charts angry, I struggle to put it into words. I think Jews in Germany in the 1920s didn't think they were doing anything wrong, or feel a need to actively hide it.

It's fascinating how obviously smart people can rationalize their actions. Schmidt and Google claim to be "progressive" but that kind of rationale of "nothing to hide" would mean that every progressive movement would have been shut down in its early stages had this kind of tech and surveillance been available at the time because it went against what was currently judged as right by the people in power

> It's fascinating how obviously smart people can rationalize their actions.

It's the classic dilemma: "People ask 'Can we do this?' and rarely ask 'Should we do this?'"

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#138

Post by sneakernets »

Raphmedia wrote: post #113
benschulz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude makes me so off the charts angry, I struggle to put it into words. I think Jews in Germany in the 1920s didn't think they were doing anything wrong, or feel a need to actively hide it.

These kinds of practices are still going on right now. See the Anti-gay purges in Chechnya that happened in 2017. "The Chechen police and military have conducted entrapment schemes, in which a victim is lured on a date, beaten and humiliated". According to some sources, those entrapment schemes where using online dating apps. Eric Schmidt's concept of privacy is so focused on the sort term where we live in free count…

Same here, I noticed an odd shift to weird adverts when it started sending me random things that were shots in the dark, from makeup to house paint.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#139

Post by proactivesvcs »

I understand the article is not about web site tracking, but the Norwegian Consumer Council should not be permitting readers of that particular piece to be tracked by Google, or have an eight-month tracking cookie dropped by them. Either way, it's good to read another authority detail such unethical practises.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#140

Post by OmarGonzalez »

aherz wrote: post #123
levesque wrote: post #4

I tried using Google Maps without search history turned on. It's basically a downgraded version. They tied saving locations with the search history, so it won't let you search for friends' contacts, set a home address, etc. Is it on purpose? I don't know, but I find it weird that they would tie some unrelated features together. Why does setting a Home address require search history?

As manipulative as Google can be, we should keep in mind that Google Maps is incredibly useful and we get to use it for "free". Yes we pay with our data and privacy and Google can do a better job of making that transparent but we can only get so upset when we don't get the full version of a product when we don't want to give our data.

Yeah no, I rather pay a fee for that
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