EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone • Hacker News Board

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#81

Post by Silhouette » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

Tomte wrote: post #66

Silhouette wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's the UK's obligation to preserve the Good Friday Agreement. The legal technicalities of that are debatable, but let's assume for this discussion that there exists a clear legal obligation to do so. Which specific obligation(s) under the GFA do you think would or would not be satisfied by which specific proposal(s) that have been made in relation to the NI/Ireland border?

Well, I guess the IRA had always had a legal obligation not to kill people. It hasn't stopped them. Maybe the view needs to be widened a bit.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what point you're trying to make here.

The comment by blibble that you replied to was about a question of sovereignty, and both the summary of why the ERG don't like the proposed WA and the likely consequences of that seem reasonably accurate to me.

You seem to have introduced first the GFA and then the IRA into the discussion, but without explaining why they were relevant to the original point. Can you clarify what argument you are trying to make here?

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#82

Post by arethuza » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #58

blibble wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let's be accurate here: the reason the brexiteers (i.e. the ERG) don't like the withdrawal agreement is that it gives the EU effective control of the UK economy without any mechanism for the UK to leave that arrangement without the EU's permission which is the sort of term a victor of war forces on a defeated party the ERG agreed earlier this week that if this part of the agreement is dropped they will vote for it, o…

There are people who identify as Irish and hold Irish passports who live in Northern Ireland and would be cut off from the Republic without the backstop. It's precisely the making of national identity a non-distinguishing factor that underlies the peace process. The backstop is publicly popular in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland voted by a substantial majority to Remain. The DUP is the only party that voted agains…

For anyone who doesn't get the reference, worth considering the fairly recent history of Northern Ireland:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#83

Post by ionised » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #60

tomp wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent means things like, draconian copyright rules, ISDS (investor-state dispute settlement), subversion of customer protection rules (e.g. selling GMO meat in EU), etc. In addition, Japan and EU are obviously similarly (very highly) developed countries, so "free trade" between them is very close to "fair trade" as well, as opposed to e.g. free trade between EU and China would be (EU companies would skir…

Banning GMO meat doesn't protect consumers. It's just unscientific pandering to special interest groups.

Banning hormone-treated beef and chlorine washed chicken would protect customers from shitty food though.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#84

Post by jenscow » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #45

Tomte wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's the UK's obligation to preserve the Good Friday Agreement. You can't blame the EU for that obligation. I'm pretty sure that fifteen years ago, nobody would have thought that "let's keep the bombings" would be a coherent and respectable opinion. Things have changed.

Well, it's the UK's obligation to preserve the Good Friday Agreement. The legal technicalities of that are debatable, but let's assume for this discussion that there exists a clear legal obligation to do so. Which specific obligation(s) under the GFA do you think would or would not be satisfied by which specific proposal(s) that have been made in relation to the NI/Ireland border?

https://twitter.com/OFOCBrexit/status/1091333511548715009 [video+subtitles]

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#85

Post by matt4077 » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #47

annapurna wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are still so many things that are ridiculously expensive in Canada for no rational (long term) benefit to either party assuming it was a real market. I cannot find the link but no surprises when there was a report (from one of the EU organizations) that we pay the highest cell phone fees.

The high cellphone + ISP fees in Canada are a result of the monopoly the ~2-3 telecom companies were given by government a few decades back to "accelerate" broadband and mobile infrastructure development. The only positive tradeoff we've gotten out of decades of paying 25-50% more per month than most countries is that our networks have been cutting edge. We got 3g, 4g, etc before almost everyone. But I don't attribut…

I doubt there are many countries with more than two or three competing networks. There may be a few more resellers, or even several dozens. But it’s just uneconomical to build the hardware five times over.

In any case, a FTA is not going to change it.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#86

Post by spacenick88 » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

mpweiher wrote: post #41

blibble wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let's be accurate here: the reason the brexiteers (i.e. the ERG) don't like the withdrawal agreement is that it gives the EU effective control of the UK economy without any mechanism for the UK to leave that arrangement without the EU's permission which is the sort of term a victor of war forces on a defeated party the ERG agreed earlier this week that if this part of the agreement is dropped they will vote for it, o…

Actually: no. Not even close. 1) The backstop is just that: a backstop. It applies only if and as long as the "frictionless" arrangements for the NI border, which everyone wants and everyone has very publicly said they want, doesn't happen. So as soon as that happens, no more backstop. 2) UKGov claimed that this frictionless trade technology/mechanism exists and can be made to work, but in the months (or years) could…

Maybe we (the EU countries) should have mercy with them, let's just set a time limit of 1000 years, then they can't claim forever and everyone should be happy, right?

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#87

Post by smcl » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

ionised wrote: post #77

growlist wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'benefitted'

Yes, the UK benefitted greatly from the massive net positive contribtuions that immigration had on its economy.

I mean when you look at it purely from a "are we all demonstrably better off in the EU" perspective then sure the UK has benefitted from membership.

If however you look at it from the point of view of "I hate people who look or speak different" the it's a different and frankly more miserable situation.

I think the person you were replying to was of the latter persuasion.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#88

Post by addicted » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 4:15 PM UTC

blibble wrote: post #53

mpweiher wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually: no. Not even close. 1) The backstop is just that: a backstop. It applies only if and as long as the "frictionless" arrangements for the NI border, which everyone wants and everyone has very publicly said they want, doesn't happen. So as soon as that happens, no more backstop. 2) UKGov claimed that this frictionless trade technology/mechanism exists and can be made to work, but in the months (or years) could…

this is a extremely naive view of the situation obviously there's no problem if you are of the belief that the EU would act fairly in the situation where a new workable friction-less trade technology/mechanism is created the ERG do not share this belief: their view is that if the withdrawal agreement is signed then the EU has no incentive to ever permit the UK to leave the temporary arrangement, as it would lose cont…

The EU has no incentive for a pissed off UK hanging on the basis of a temporary compromise.

It’s only the ERG’s inflated sense of England’s greatness that makes it hard for them to comprehend that the EU actually has bigger goals than just attaching itself to the UK.

This misunderstanding has led Brexiters to be consistently wrong in their analyses and predictions throughout this process. Right from easiest deal in history, to having your cake and eating it too, to wondering why doesn’t the Republic of Ireland just subjugate itself to the UK and give up their independence.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#89

Post by Tomte » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 4:15 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #81

Tomte wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess the IRA had always had a legal obligation not to kill people. It hasn't stopped them. Maybe the view needs to be widened a bit.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. The comment by blibble that you replied to was about a question of sovereignty, and both the summary of why the ERG don't like the proposed WA and the likely consequences of that seem reasonably accurate to me. You seem to have introduced first the GFA and then the IRA into the discussion, but without explaining why they were relevant to the ori…

I'll spell it out:

He mentioned a not-further-defined mechanism for the EU to keep unlimited control over the UK.

And I clarified that this mechanism wasn't an evil plan by the EU, but instead helping the UK to meet its international obligations.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#90

Post by AndrewDucker » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

oaiey wrote: post #80

barrkel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people who identify as Irish and hold Irish passports who live in Northern Ireland and would be cut off from the Republic without the backstop. It's precisely the making of national identity a non-distinguishing factor that underlies the peace process. The backstop is publicly popular in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland voted by a substantial majority to Remain. The DUP is the only party that voted agains…

I am so confused why a nuclear power is so worried about a line in a contract. Breaching a contract always happens and as long as something good comes out of it no one cares. AND everyone wants to have a good outcome here. No one wants an explosive Northern Ireland again.

Are you suggesting that the UK makes the EU trade with it by threatening to nuke it if it doesn't?

Because that's horrifying, and I can't see how else to read your comment.