Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

'Karma': A hack used by the UAE to break into iPhones of foes

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–238 of 238 posts

Re: 'Karma': A hack used by the UAE to break into iPhones of foes

#231

Post by int_19h »

794CD01 wrote: post #228
int_19h wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not going to happen on "slightly preferable terms". Either those with political power in society want surveillance, or they don't. If they do, they'll take all that they can get, and the only thing cooperating with them will do is make it all happen faster - the moment you provide a "compromise" surveillance scheme to them on a silver platter is the moment when they'll start devising how to get around the remain…

So you simultaneously think the other side is so powerful that you cannot even compromise with them without being pushed back further, but they are also so weak that you believe you can achieve a total victory without conceding any points? How you you reconcile that? Or do you just resign yourself to fighting for a purer goal since you know you will lose without achieving it regardless?

Total victory, no. Total victory would be strong encryption free to use by everybody without fear of persecution. That looks increasingly unlikely.

However, I do not believe they can effectively enforce any encryption bans. Thus, people who need encryption will still have access to it. And as far as I am concerned, my duty (as a software engineer) is to ensure that it remains the case, even if using it becomes illegal.

Re: 'Karma': A hack used by the UAE to break into iPhones of foes

#232

Post by bb88 »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #221
bb88 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're probably using the wrong language.

Well I did say "in the theorem-proving sense", meaning that the code undergoes formal verification. There are programming languages for which each function is a theorem that is proved at compile time. That's what I meant. There are some low-level libraries that have already been partially converted to theorem-proved functions for the sake of security.

You're slicing the argument thinner than what a politician would see.

Re: 'Karma': A hack used by the UAE to break into iPhones of foes

#233

Post by house_atr »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #148
house_atr wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Totalitarian regime" I stop reading whenever I hear doublespeak. You need to find a new way to address countries that aren't western democracies. Especially since the rest of the world is catching up, you won't hold this monopoly on labels for much longer.

Connotations aside, totalitarian is an accurate description of the majority of the UAE. Most of it's citizens live in constituent Emirates which are absolute monarchies. Dubai is a notable exception as a constitutional monarchy, although the relative strength of the monarch is not exactly set even there.

And Imperialist and hegemonic are accurate descriptions of the Nato bloc. Won't catch you accurate labelers incessantly using that at every opportunity, now will we.

Re: 'Karma': A hack used by the UAE to break into iPhones of foes

#234

Post by house_atr »

frostburg wrote: post #150
house_atr wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Totalitarian regime" I stop reading whenever I hear doublespeak. You need to find a new way to address countries that aren't western democracies. Especially since the rest of the world is catching up, you won't hold this monopoly on labels for much longer.

Those countries being relatively more powerful doesn't directly make their governments less unethical. Giving lip service to their propaganda doesn't help either. Also, if you're talking about the mid east and not, say, China, the future doesn't really look bright.

The future you're afraid of is already the present for the rest of the world under the hegemony of the Anglo sphere. The future looks very bright for me.

Re: 'Karma': A hack used by the UAE to break into iPhones of foes

#235

Post by 794CD01 »

int_19h wrote: post #231
794CD01 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you simultaneously think the other side is so powerful that you cannot even compromise with them without being pushed back further, but they are also so weak that you believe you can achieve a total victory without conceding any points? How you you reconcile that? Or do you just resign yourself to fighting for a purer goal since you know you will lose without achieving it regardless?

Total victory, no. Total victory would be strong encryption free to use by everybody without fear of persecution. That looks increasingly unlikely. However, I do not believe they can effectively enforce any encryption bans. Thus, people who need encryption will still have access to it. And as far as I am concerned, my duty (as a software engineer) is to ensure that it remains the case, even if using it becomes illega…

That attitude sounds like a myopic focus on the software at the expense of everything else.

Say that in the year 2160 you have perfect, unbreakable encryption on your pocket computer. How will you use it? With a touchscreen or keyboard, allowing microscopic cameras to see you input it or read the thermal signatures off your input device afterwards? With your face or voice that are continuously being recorded from hundreds if not thousands of angles? Plugging in the future equivalent of a yubikey that someone can just steal from you? You're lucky if fMRIs don't become good enough to just pluck the information out of your brain as you think it. Of course, the master key is most important but all of these concerns apply to the data being protected as well.

The real thing that can never be effectively enforced is privacy. People who need encryption can have access to it or not. It matters not one whit. Our duty (as people) is to push society in a direction where this change feels less catastrophic, not to fight a Caligulan war against the sea.

Re: 'Karma': A hack used by the UAE to break into iPhones of foes

#236

Post by int_19h »

794CD01 wrote: post #235
int_19h wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total victory, no. Total victory would be strong encryption free to use by everybody without fear of persecution. That looks increasingly unlikely. However, I do not believe they can effectively enforce any encryption bans. Thus, people who need encryption will still have access to it. And as far as I am concerned, my duty (as a software engineer) is to ensure that it remains the case, even if using it becomes illega…

That attitude sounds like a myopic focus on the software at the expense of everything else. Say that in the year 2160 you have perfect, unbreakable encryption on your pocket computer. How will you use it? With a touchscreen or keyboard, allowing microscopic cameras to see you input it or read the thermal signatures off your input device afterwards? With your face or voice that are continuously being recorded from hun…

> With a touchscreen or keyboard, allowing microscopic cameras to see you input it or read the thermal signatures off your input device afterwards? With your face or voice that are continuously being recorded from hundreds if not thousands of angles? Plugging in the future equivalent of a yubikey that someone can just steal from you? You're lucky if fMRIs don't become good enough to just pluck the information out of your brain as you think it.

You're basically describing a totalitarian Panopticon. A society like that should be fought by all means available, including physical force, so the question of legality of encryption is somewhat moot at that point.

Re: 'Karma': A hack used by the UAE to break into iPhones of foes

#237

Post by ric2b »

FakeComments wrote: post #204
baybal2 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not trying to accomplish some absolute ideological position You did. Any attempt at right of privacy must be mercilessly crushed with maximum force

That’s clearly not how the US (or anywhere) operates: the constitution itself negotiates terms between privacy and security — privacy is not and never has been an absolute right. Further, I’m actually trying to increase privacy, by negotiating a compromise that’s workable for society as a way to remove the excuses bad actors are using, and shift the legal framework around the topic. That’s not an absolute ideological…

> Further, I’m actually trying to increase privacy, by negotiating a compromise that’s workable for society as a way to remove the excuses bad actors are using, and shift the legal framework around the topic. That’s not an absolute ideological position, by any definition.

I appreciate the motivation but it's very naive.

Sure, you give them access after 1 month. Next they'll say 1 month is too long, they need to be able to do it within hours to be able to catch criminals before they run to another city. Then it'll be minutes so they can stop crimes while they're happening. Then it'll be real-time on everyone so they can use machine learning to predict crimes minutes before they happen.

> Your stance is why Australia passed an internet wiretapping law, not mine — because you refused to acknowledge a societal need until they employed force.

> If your approach worked, we wouldn’t have the state of things we do now.

They would still have done, and more. You think police and intelligence agencies will one day just say "yeah, that's enough, we're good"? No, they'll want anything that makes their job easier and gives them more power, always.

Re: 'Karma': A hack used by the UAE to break into iPhones of foes

#238

Post by adellis »

A very good opportunity out there to confirm and clear your doubts about your relationship infidelities signs is almcybergenius on gmal, it is both general public as well as privately owned information. It will go past what a single resource is able to do for you or what search engines like google might provide you with. You will have accessibility to public record information, social networking summary, a general internet lookup, court public records, criminal history records, cell phone data (both general public and privately owned directories ), driving information and much more. you can also contact them on whatspp +16282043675 tell him Liss referred you
Post reply on HN