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Lombok makes Java cool again

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Re: Lombok makes Java cool again

#91

Post by fraggle222 »

zestyping wrote: post #83

Reading this just reminds me of all the terrible things about Java. The lack of reasonable default string representations, comparison and hashing methods, etc. are all glaring mistakes in the language design that have wasted huge amounts of time for millions of programmers. It's as though Java programmers are so deep in the grips of Stockholm Syndrome that ordinary, sensible behaviour seems amazing and "cool". This i…

You either like strongly typed object oriented langs or you don't. If you do, then a bit of verbosity is really nothing. If there are actual lang improvements beyond saving me a few characters, I'll take them.

Re: Lombok makes Java cool again

#92

Post by dominotw »

jacobn wrote: post #82
jamougha wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can read Scala fine but I'd like fast compilation and good IDE support.

The IDE support is pretty good these days, as least in IntelliJ.

Intellij still can't figure out how to handle implicits. At this point i have an intuition about the errors that idea reports as errors but actually aren't'.

Re: Lombok makes Java cool again

#94

Post by barrkel »

mattnewport wrote: post #63
codesushi42 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious, which language do you find is better designed?

Most of them to be honest :) Some languages do at least one thing particularly well, setting the standard in that regard. Some introduce or popularize new concepts that slowly see adoption elsewhere. Several make you think about programming in a different way. Some just have an overall elegance, unity, consistency or simplicity of design that make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. Languages that check at l…

Java popularised GC. GC wasn't taken seriously as an option for high performance code before Java, and it altered the mindset of the majority of programmers globally.

Java's biggest mistake IMO is checked exceptions.

Java is more notable for the things it left out than what it added. It was designed for success and achieved more than most of the languages you list.

I don't love Java. However there are many cases in which it's still the best option.

Re: Lombok makes Java cool again

#95

Post by sqrt17 »

fraggle222 wrote: post #91
zestyping wrote: post #83

Reading this just reminds me of all the terrible things about Java. The lack of reasonable default string representations, comparison and hashing methods, etc. are all glaring mistakes in the language design that have wasted huge amounts of time for millions of programmers. It's as though Java programmers are so deep in the grips of Stockholm Syndrome that ordinary, sensible behaviour seems amazing and "cool". This i…

You either like strongly typed object oriented langs or you don't. If you do, then a bit of verbosity is really nothing. If there are actual lang improvements beyond saving me a few characters, I'll take them.

The difference is more in a "batteries included" sense - Python values developer productivity and gives you what you need, similarly Haskell which is on the opposite end of a Dynamic vs Static spectrum, while Java was traditionally more oriented towards stability and predictability and partly attached to the old-school cool of potato programming.

Re: Lombok makes Java cool again

#96

Post by rufugee »

kodablah wrote: post #7
ganonm wrote: post #3

Lombok is a useful crutch if you're writing lots of Java code on a day to day basis. However, given how easy it is to use Kotlin alongside Java I would question whether Lombok is the right solution to the problem. Kotlin has data classes which auto generate sensible 'toString' and 'hashCode' methods which is a massive time saver. Really, if you are considering introducing Kotlin to a Java project I'd recommend you ju…

> auto generate sensible [...] 'hashCode' methods Unless you're using arrays. They went with "predictable" over "sensible" here. > is flawless from my experience As a heavy Kotlin user, I'd say it's far from flawless (not sure if you mean interop or the entirety of the language, but applies to both). I'm often creating and starring YouTrack issues. But yes, it's still a highly recommended alternative to Java.

As someone considering using Kotlin for my next project, your comment is interesting. Care to share what flaws you've uncovered?

Re: Lombok makes Java cool again

#97

Post by jcheng »

Rapzid wrote: post #76
dangets wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I love data classes for the simplicity and utility but pretty soon there are more annotations than java code. In Java I prefer Immutables over Lombok but once you add Jackson annotations, customize the Immutables generated code (@Value.Immutable, @Value.Parameter, etc), add some javax.validation (@NotNull, @NotEmpty) it gets very noisy very quickly. And yet it is still better than writing mutable bean classes by…

I would be nice for any language that supported annotations(TypeScript, C#, python, etc) if we could somehow annotate the same code in different files while maintaining a single source of property truth.. A combination of interfaces and class annotations for combining them could work..

I don't know if this is what you mean, but Aspect Oriented Programming was a hot topic for a very short period in the early 2000's, especially in the enterprise Java community. Ultimately it didn't seem to find many use cases and the buzz died down pretty quick.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AspectJ

Re: Lombok makes Java cool again

#98

Post by Shawnecy »

guapo wrote: post #84
dangets wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I love data classes for the simplicity and utility but pretty soon there are more annotations than java code. In Java I prefer Immutables over Lombok but once you add Jackson annotations, customize the Immutables generated code (@Value.Immutable, @Value.Parameter, etc), add some javax.validation (@NotNull, @NotEmpty) it gets very noisy very quickly. And yet it is still better than writing mutable bean classes by…

Or just register the Jackson Java 8 datatypes module. Then you can create a standard immutable class with a constructior, and Jackson's object mapper can then serialize and deserialize. The only catch is that you must add -parameters to your javac args.

This is what I do. Can attest that it keeps things very clean and lean.

Re: Lombok makes Java cool again

#99

Post by flomble »

fraggle222 wrote: post #91
zestyping wrote: post #83

Reading this just reminds me of all the terrible things about Java. The lack of reasonable default string representations, comparison and hashing methods, etc. are all glaring mistakes in the language design that have wasted huge amounts of time for millions of programmers. It's as though Java programmers are so deep in the grips of Stockholm Syndrome that ordinary, sensible behaviour seems amazing and "cool". This i…

You either like strongly typed object oriented langs or you don't. If you do, then a bit of verbosity is really nothing. If there are actual lang improvements beyond saving me a few characters, I'll take them.

> You either like strongly typed object oriented langs or you don't.

Sorry, but this argument doesn't pass muster anymore, when there are abundant examples of strongly typed object oriented langs which don't exhibit these flaws. C# avoids getter and setter boilerplate with `get` and `set`. Kotlin and Swift, unlike Java, actually are strongly typed, because objects aren't implicitly nullable. And the many conveniences afforded by modern language features add up to improved productivity, provided the programmer using the language doesn't rigidly refuse to learn to use them.

Re: Lombok makes Java cool again

#100

Post by hodgesrm »

zestyping wrote: post #83

Reading this just reminds me of all the terrible things about Java. The lack of reasonable default string representations, comparison and hashing methods, etc. are all glaring mistakes in the language design that have wasted huge amounts of time for millions of programmers. It's as though Java programmers are so deep in the grips of Stockholm Syndrome that ordinary, sensible behaviour seems amazing and "cool". This i…

Which design patterns are you thinking of and which languages had them? The original gang of four Design Patterns book is filled with C++ examples, most likely because almost nobody was using Java in 1995 outside of a few people at Sun.

More generally comparison and hashing methods seem like small potatoes compared to locking primitives, portability, and a large, well-documented class library that have made Java ideal for a very large fraction of business applications. There are many things to criticize in Java but the points you list don't seem to be especially important compared, say, to the relatively steep learning curve/complexity vs languages like modern Javascript.

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