Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#81

Post by gojomo » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:55 PM UTC

_bxg1 wrote: post #51

rising-sky wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar concerns. I think this might, in the long term, be detrimental to Apple if companies begin to revolt against their overarching, seemingly totalitarian power regardless of if the intent is noble. As mentioned in a separate Verge article- "One giant platform declared another giant platform’s market research program inappropriate, then disappeared it with a Thanos-style finger snap" also from same article, attri…

Yeah, I read that article. It was a pretty bad take. Apple isn't "Thanos-snapping", it's enforcing its own terms of use which are very clearly laid out. Both Facebook and Google knowingly breached those terms, and they got caught. That's all there is to it.

If you think they're "very clearly laid out", can you quote the relevant sections, and definitions, from the terms that make it so? I've been searching, and asking, and not seen them yet.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#82

Post by noja » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:55 PM UTC

smitty1110 wrote: post #30

minimaxir wrote: post #2

I called it last thread ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19038328 ), but I'm legit impressed Apple went through with it. This might open the floodgates for Apple to shut down even more certs.

More than that, I think this will result in Apple being a bit less laissez faire about what companies do with their certificates. I think they may even look to change the system, maybe make it so that enterprise certificates have to register the devices they are installed on.

Exactly.

I expect in future you'll need to push these apps to the official app store, but have the ability to restrict who downloads them (to registered devices, or accounts - like with the Play Store beta program).

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#83

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:55 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #17

elicash wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless Google takes action against Apple.

On what basis? They clearly violated the rules.

Google doesn't need a basis to retaliate other than "we want to". Maybe they'll yank the Apple Music app from the Android app store or something.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#84

Post by basil-rash » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:56 PM UTC

arduinomancer wrote: post #50

I don't get how everyone working on these apps thought there would be no issues doing this. "Yup, getting consumers to bypass the app store and side-load our app is perfectly reasonable, no issues here. No way this could possibly backfire." Only thing I could see is the PM's didn't actually understand what the enterprise certificate program was supposed to be for.

I very much doubt it was a PM in charge of reading the TOS for the enterprise certificate program. When you need to sign a contract on behalf of your (multinational, FAANG) company, you get your legal team to go over it.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#85

Post by toasterlovin » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:56 PM UTC

arduinomancer wrote: post #50

I don't get how everyone working on these apps thought there would be no issues doing this. "Yup, getting consumers to bypass the app store and side-load our app is perfectly reasonable, no issues here. No way this could possibly backfire." Only thing I could see is the PM's didn't actually understand what the enterprise certificate program was supposed to be for.

It's better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.

And, on top of that, Facebook and Google have retaliatory power, so they know that Apple's response will be measured in a way that it wouldn't be with smaller developers.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#86

Post by draw_down » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:56 PM UTC

gorkish wrote: post #74

What I want to know is why these companies are using the same cert to sign apps with widely differing uses and security profiles. It seems to me that they should have a number of enterprise signing certs for each use case such as internal beta, external beta, internal utility, external utility, whatever. If the companies are signing all of their apps under the same cert then it's kind of on them for being stupid to s…

I was wondering the same thing, using the same cert for such different purposes just seems like a basic tactical error. On the other hand, perhaps asking for multiple certs would cause Apple to question why they want that in the first place?

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#87

Post by evilduck » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:57 PM UTC

izacus wrote: post #63

untog wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what basis? They clearly violated the rules.

"The rules" were not given by God, government or the people. The rules were written by the same company that enforces them and Google, Facebook or anyone else can make the same type of "Rules".

The rules were mutually agreed upon in their enterprise account legal contract someone signed. That legal structure is acknowledged by the government and implicitly the people.

If you've done business with Google or Facebook, they behave _exactly_ the same way.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#88

Post by pbalau » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:57 PM UTC

gorkish wrote: post #74

What I want to know is why these companies are using the same cert to sign apps with widely differing uses and security profiles. It seems to me that they should have a number of enterprise signing certs for each use case such as internal beta, external beta, internal utility, external utility, whatever. If the companies are signing all of their apps under the same cert then it's kind of on them for being stupid to s…

To my understanding, FB is using the enterprise cert to sign internal apps (which pointed me to my last replies on this thread) and another cert to sign things for general population. I think Google does the same.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#89

Post by AnonymousPlanet » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

izacus wrote: post #58

_bxg1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I read that article. It was a pretty bad take. Apple isn't "Thanos-snapping", it's enforcing its own terms of use which are very clearly laid out. Both Facebook and Google knowingly breached those terms, and they got caught. That's all there is to it.

Since terms of use are something Apple makes up, I don't really see the difference. Google can make the terms of use "None of our services and any kind of services deployed on Google Cloud may ever be displayed on an Apple device" and it will have the same legitimancy. I don't know why there's so many people who think putting something in a bullet point as a policy/law just makes it somehow different.

> I don't know why there's so many people who think putting something in a bullet point as a policy/law just makes it somehow different.

Remember those cyberpunk stories where not the elected governments but rivaling multinational companies are the law? This is how we get there.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#90

Post by jdietrich » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:59 PM UTC

_bxg1 wrote: post #3

I feel less vengeful satisfaction from this one, but I respect that they're applying their rules consistently. I just hope it doesn't backfire. On a totally personal level, I'd rather Facebook feel the hurt for its audacity than Apple be forced to backtrack because they made too many enemies.

It's worth bearing in mind that Google pay Apple billions of dollars a year to be the default search engine on iOS. To my eyes, Apple clearly have the upper hand in this relationship.

https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3063669/google-is-...