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Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

theverge.com

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Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#51

Post by _bxg1 »

rising-sky wrote: post #37
_bxg1 wrote: post #3

I feel less vengeful satisfaction from this one, but I respect that they're applying their rules consistently. I just hope it doesn't backfire. On a totally personal level, I'd rather Facebook feel the hurt for its audacity than Apple be forced to backtrack because they made too many enemies.

Similar concerns. I think this might, in the long term, be detrimental to Apple if companies begin to revolt against their overarching, seemingly totalitarian power regardless of if the intent is noble. As mentioned in a separate Verge article- "One giant platform declared another giant platform’s market research program inappropriate, then disappeared it with a Thanos-style finger snap" also from same article, attri…

Yeah, I read that article. It was a pretty bad take. Apple isn't "Thanos-snapping", it's enforcing its own terms of use which are very clearly laid out. Both Facebook and Google knowingly breached those terms, and they got caught. That's all there is to it.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#52

Post by abtinf »

dombili wrote: post #4

I don't want to pass judgment on whether Google (or in the previous case, Facebook) was in the wrong, but it doesn't sit well with me that Apple wields so much power on what software their phones can run after it sells them. You may very well think that they're using their power sparingly and benevolently, but who is to say that will be the case next time around?

Everyone on HN seems to be opposed to government mandated backdoors, but want Apple to install one anyway for the sake of some hand-wavey notion that Apple has undue “power”.

This control is a feature and one of the reasons I use iOS. I value a system I can trust to be free of malware. I know that when I recommend iPhone to friends and family, I will never have to field a support call involving a mountain of malware that was installed because they were tricked into clicking “ok”.

I trust my iPhone way more than my desktop, laptop, or any SaaS. Same with my iPad. I can’t wait for the end of the era of bad-guys-win-by-default.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#53

Post by rising-sky »

dombili wrote: post #4

I don't want to pass judgment on whether Google (or in the previous case, Facebook) was in the wrong, but it doesn't sit well with me that Apple wields so much power on what software their phones can run after it sells them. You may very well think that they're using their power sparingly and benevolently, but who is to say that will be the case next time around?

s/yields/wields

typo i think but totally alters meaning

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#54

Post by bunderbunder »

dombili wrote: post #4

I don't want to pass judgment on whether Google (or in the previous case, Facebook) was in the wrong, but it doesn't sit well with me that Apple wields so much power on what software their phones can run after it sells them. You may very well think that they're using their power sparingly and benevolently, but who is to say that will be the case next time around?

I get that.

At the same time, maintaining that level of control seems to be a central feature of iOS's security and privacy model. It's not just about ensuring that only trusted software can be installed in the first place, it's also about having some sort of mechanism for fixing the problem when software that had previously been approved proves to be malware, or when a publisher who had previously been approved turns out to be a bad player.

For an example of what's possible in environment where you aren't limited to running trusted software, earlier this week I had a conversation with an acquaintance who had recently paid hundreds of dollars to a ransomware scammer. To me, the value of being able to prevent those kinds of abuse is pretty straightforward.

What Apple's doing with Facebook and Google is grayer, but I can see where they're coming from. They have strict privacy rules that they expect to be followed on all apps released to the public, and Facebook and Google were using the enterprise program to circumvent those rules. In light of that, you could argue that they had to follow through on their terms of service in order to demonstrate good faith to their customers who rely on them to enforce those privacy rules.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#55

Post by pbalau »

zepto wrote: post #24
pbalau wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they? Please think of this: is there a minimum age for internships?

Are you suggesting there was a child labor law violation as well as a breach of contract?

I'm wondering if either Apple is in the wrong, or FB needs a better legal team. By FB legal team I mean those people that should point out when things are not legal.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#56

Post by AmericanChopper »

dombili wrote: post #4

I don't want to pass judgment on whether Google (or in the previous case, Facebook) was in the wrong, but it doesn't sit well with me that Apple wields so much power on what software their phones can run after it sells them. You may very well think that they're using their power sparingly and benevolently, but who is to say that will be the case next time around?

This case has gotten a lot of attention only because of who’s involved, but the Apple App Store is a headache for many businesses. Last year I was working with a company that had a white label app design studio as part of its product. Apple said they had to discontinue it, and that they were only allowed to produce one app for all of their customers to share. The company bit the bullet and spent months re-engineering and redesigning their product, it’s competitors did nothing and just spent months complaining to Apple. Apple eventually caved and reversed the rule, that company had six months of two engineering teams time wasted, their competitors wasted no resources on it at all. On top of that, the rule was already being applied completely arbitrarily by industry. Most of the worlds banking apps are white label, but didn’t receive any problems from Apple.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#57

Post by klodolph »

_bxg1 wrote: post #21
dombili wrote: post #4

I don't want to pass judgment on whether Google (or in the previous case, Facebook) was in the wrong, but it doesn't sit well with me that Apple wields so much power on what software their phones can run after it sells them. You may very well think that they're using their power sparingly and benevolently, but who is to say that will be the case next time around?

I used to feel that way, and I used Android for years for that reason. But since switching to an iPhone, I've found that what I really want from my phone is not a totally open platform, but a tool that's simple, secure, and effective. Something I don't have to mess with, something I can trust to do its job and respect my privacy and be pleasant to interact with. They tried going that direction a bit with macOS when t…

I'm not sure I quite understand your complaint about the Mac's App Store. I want to have free reign on my workstation, but part of that is I want to be able to limit the amount of access that programs have. The big difference with the App Store, from my perspective, is that I know that the applications are sandboxed, signed, and someone out there can revoke the code signing certificate.

This is basically what I want, most of the time, and it's hard to achieve it outside the App Store.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#58

Post by izacus »

_bxg1 wrote: post #51
rising-sky wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar concerns. I think this might, in the long term, be detrimental to Apple if companies begin to revolt against their overarching, seemingly totalitarian power regardless of if the intent is noble. As mentioned in a separate Verge article- "One giant platform declared another giant platform’s market research program inappropriate, then disappeared it with a Thanos-style finger snap" also from same article, attri…

Yeah, I read that article. It was a pretty bad take. Apple isn't "Thanos-snapping", it's enforcing its own terms of use which are very clearly laid out. Both Facebook and Google knowingly breached those terms, and they got caught. That's all there is to it.

Since terms of use are something Apple makes up, I don't really see the difference.

Google can make the terms of use "None of our services and any kind of services deployed on Google Cloud may ever be displayed on an Apple device" and it will have the same legitimancy.

I don't know why there's so many people who think putting something in a bullet point as a policy/law just makes it somehow different.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#59

Post by gmueckl »

darkpuma wrote: post #40
zozbot123 wrote: post #18

Rumor has it that Google's subsequent requests for clarification to Apple have gone entirely unanswered, save for automated messages stating that Apple's decision on this matter should be regarded as "final" and "binding", and that no further statement from Apple should be expected.

If that's true, it's feels pretty satisfying to hear that Google is on the receiving end of terrible customer service for once.

While I derive a certain satisfaction from this thought, I am certain that these companies have actual human contacts that they can reach out to in cases like this.
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