I lost my data trying to back it up • Hacker News Board

Re: I lost my data trying to back it up

#91

Post by arghwhat » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:32 PM UTC

tracker1 wrote: post #54

Raid is not backup... Your data isn't backed up unless there are at least 3 full copies in 2 physical locations. I have to admit I'm slightly paranoid about it... 20-something years ago I was working in tech support for iomega (mostly os/2 and jazz calls). Nothing taught me the importance of true backups more than that job. I do leverage a few things though... for the most part, I keep stuff on my nas. Projects are i…

I agree with your idea, but your definition is overkill.

A backup is a copy of data on hardware separate from the live system.

A good backup is a backup in in a remote location.

A backup strategy is to maintain a good backup.

A good backup strategy is to have routine restore tests, to make sure that the backups serve their purpose.

A great backup strategy requires at least 2 good backups.

Re: I lost my data trying to back it up

#92

Post by photoGrant » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

NKosmatos wrote: post #27

Sorry for your loss. Here are my two cents... For complete system backup on Windows use Acronis [0], on MacOS use Carbon Copy Cloner [1] and on Linux Clonezilla [2]. Also never forget the 3-2-1 rule of backups [3], 3 copies, 2 local copies on different mediums and 1 copy offsite (cloud, remote) :-) [0] https://www.acronis.com/en-us/personal/computer-backup/ [1] https://bombich.com/ [2] https://clonezilla.org/ [3] htt…

Hah, I've always had a '3 by 3' rule. 3 copies, 3 mediums, 3 locations.

Re: I lost my data trying to back it up

#93

Post by coldtea » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:40 PM UTC

>When it comes to backing up the full OS, I don’t believe in online backup solutions.

And how did that work out for you?

If you did believe in online backup solutions, in addition to whatever else, you'd have your data now.

(I understand worrying about quick recovery, booting, etc. But, as an additional method besides hard local copies, it makes sense, as having an extra off site backup of the data is important. Better to have to spend 3 days to manually download and restore a bootable image, than to not have the data at all. And online backup services also allow for automated backups on your backup -- backup-ception).

Re: I lost my data trying to back it up

#94

Post by arghwhat » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:41 PM UTC

anilakar wrote: post #31

ghaff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other moral is that RAID is not a backup. I’d also argue that for most individuals who don’t really need to worry about an hour or two of downtime, it’s a lot more useful to have good (multiple) current backups than potentially complex RAID configurations.

RAID is the zeroth-tier backup. At least it will prevent most of the horror stories where people accidentally destroy their backups when trying to restore them.

No. RAID allows you to combine make many highly fallible disks into one big less fallible disk.

Making independent devices into a unified device is a concept that is the polar opposite to a backup.

Your example is also why people say that two backups are needed. Once your live system fails, if you only had one backup, you are now left with none. What was a backup is now your only copy, leaving you very vulnerable.

Re: I lost my data trying to back it up

#95

Post by HenryBemis » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:42 PM UTC

Many years ago I was the go-to guy for all friends and family for recovery. I would try my best to recover as much as I could and then I would charge them €100 and I was going and buying them 100 blank DVDs and external DVD writers so they burn the "My Documents" every week. It was a time that CrashPlan and Carbonite were not around.

Re: I lost my data trying to back it up

#96

Post by wetpaste » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:49 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #29

Takeaways - Your data is at most risk from yourself. Other risks such as hackers, burlgars, fire or hardware failures aren't nearly as dangerous to your data as you are. - Backup is HARD. Have someone else do it. - Mirroring is fine for one first copy. Whether that copy is raid or just another NAS or something, but there should always be a proper BACKUP too. - To be a proper backup it should be 1) Write only/snapshot…

- Get backups sorted out before you consider using it as a production system.

If OP had iterated on having a backup system BEFORE adding important data, they wouldn't have consequences to trying to implement it. At the very least, do an online, filesystem level backup of the things that are important before trying to block level disk copy things. Run a database dump, rsync it to an external location, put important things in version control and push to a remote origin. And rsync or tarball your home directory and any other important directories(whole system if possible) and push it out somewhere, then and ONLY then should you feel semi-comfortable to start messing around with RAID settings/LVM/fdisk/ etc.

Re: I lost my data trying to back it up

#97

Post by simcop2387 » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:57 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #93

> When it comes to backing up the full OS, I don’t believe in online backup solutions. And how did that work out for you? If you did believe in online backup solutions, in addition to whatever else, you'd have your data now. (I understand worrying about quick recovery, booting, etc. But, as an additional method besides hard local copies, it makes sense, as having an extra off site backup of the data is important. Bet…

This is how I treat it too. Always have a local backup, but an online or offsite one is also important. The mantra I've often heard repeated is "Two is one, and one is none".

Re: I lost my data trying to back it up

#98

Post by hjek » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:03 PM UTC

> All it took for my RAID set to become invalid and me losing my data, was booting up Ubuntu Desktop 18.04 ISO image.

That's quite a claim. Was there really no way to recover anything, even with testdisk or photorec?

Re: I lost my data trying to back it up

#99

Post by arantius » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:03 PM UTC

arghwhat wrote: post #85

olavgg wrote: post #10

Getting backup right is extremely important, that is why you need proper tools. For the last 10 years I have been using ZFS snapshots and replication. I keep 180 days with snapshots on the remote backup and 30 days for the local. I use it to take backup of virtual machines, different databases including "running", sql servers. And of course important files, documents and photos. I've also configured a daily mail with…

It is very important to elaborate that a snapshot is not a backup of anything. If you snapshot a backup to provide a history of backups, then the resulting snapshot is also a backup (albeit not a new one, merely part of the original). However, if what you snapshot is not a backup, then neither is the snapshot. As a good rule of thumb: If you lose data when the machine suddenly bursts into flames in the most literal s…

GP's third sentence:

> I keep 180 days with snapshots on the remote backup and 30 days for the local.

Re: I lost my data trying to back it up

#100

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

After reading several of these I lost my data stories, one thing that seems to popup over and over is RAID. For me, it is not worth using RAID other than RAID 1 (Mirroring). My data and my time are far more valuable than the extra storage gained. With RAID 1, I can take any working drive, mount it and instantly access it. In addition, there are fewer moving parts and fewer areas for screwups. Just say no to fancy RAID.