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Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job?

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Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job?

#1
Or why is it hard to get a decent raise? In my experience it is pretty much industry standard to favour new employees versus old ones, but to me it does not make any business sense (apart from showing who is boss). It cost time and money to cover for turnover and still new employees can be hit and miss. Also, they most probably need some form of training and it will be years until they have the same experience.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job?

#3
I've seen it time and time again. An employee wants a 10% raise but management says no and the employee quits. Then after a long search a new hire comes in at 10% more. Why not just give the existing employee that 10%?

I think the reason is that big raises are not sustainable over time. If you keep giving your employees 10% raises every year, eventually you can't afford it. So you keep raises to 2-3% as long as possible and only give larger raises along with promotions, or when hiring a new employee.

I was fortunate to find out this pattern early in my career, and I was able to average 18% raises for over a decade by switching jobs nearly every year.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job?

#4
Three main reasons which feed back on each other:

1.) Giving big raises to existing employees often causes morale problems with their coworkers. People talk, and they get resentful if someone who (in their view) is working no harder than them is suddenly getting paid $20-30K more. So giving a big raise to one person usually means you have to give it to all of them. There are mitigating circumstances if you can point to some external circumstance that's changed (eg. "Alice got her MBA", "Bob just led this big project that made us $10M", "Cindy got promoted"), which is why companies are more likely to give raises under these circumstances. By contrast, a new employee doesn't have the gossip networks of existing employees, and the business can often invent a reason why they're being paid more (eg. "David brings special skills that are crucial for us right now", "Erin was hired in at a higher level based on her experience at XYZ Corp.")

2.) Usually the company that hires away an employee for much more money has very different profit margins and revenue growth than the one they were hired from, and so they can afford to pay more. This is the economy functioning as normal: employees should jump from companies that are less productive and less profitable to those that are more productive and more profitable, because their labor will net both them and the company more.

3.) There's a cognitive bias known as anchoring, where people form a mental model of how much a person/security/job/product should be worth, and refuse to update that mental model in the face of gradually changing facts. So if you get hired in as a junior dev fresh out of college at $60K/year, your boss's mental model of you will be "that college kid we're paying $60K/year". But after a couple of years of experience, you will be way more valuable to everyone else in the market than the new college kids coming out now, and your salary will reflect that on the open market - but your boss will still think of you as "that college kid we hired for $60K/year".

The factors feed into each other, eg. anchoring is also why companies don't adopt new production techniques and go into new emerging markets that generate higher productivity per #2, higher productivity generates a qualitative difference per #1 that justifies higher wages, anchoring is the reason why bosses & coworkers are blind to minor or gradual differences in productivity per #1, and social customs of the employees often reinforce old production techniques and prevent them from benefitting from #2.

It may be helpful to think of the rational state of the workforce as always requiring retraining, the rational state of business relationships as always hit-or-miss, and the rational state of the job market as always requiring turnover. And then individual companies create bubbles within them to satisfy human needs for security & stability, because our emotions evolved when the pace of change was significantly slower. Because most people have a bias toward stability, it creates economic opportunities for those who rationally choose instability and throw away their old relationships for more productivity and higher profits.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job?

#5
post #3

I've seen it time and time again. An employee wants a 10% raise but management says no and the employee quits. Then after a long search a new hire comes in at 10% more. Why not just give the existing employee that 10%? I think the reason is that big raises are not sustainable over time. If you keep giving your employees 10% raises every year, eventually you can't afford it. So you keep raises to 2-3% as long as possi…

> I think the reason is that big raises are not sustainable over time.

I would add that new hires are seen as solutions to a problem that desperately needs a solution, unlike old employees who are just there doing their work. A company looking for a new hire is not in the same negotiating position as a company that isn't.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job?

#8

Three main reasons which feed back on each other: 1.) Giving big raises to existing employees often causes morale problems with their coworkers. People talk, and they get resentful if someone who (in their view) is working no harder than them is suddenly getting paid $20-30K more. So giving a big raise to one person usually means you have to give it to all of them. There are mitigating circumstances if you can point…

This is very interesting, especially #3. Easy to forget that the employer's view of the employee is unlikely to change even with the addition of value adding education.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job?

#9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck I quit.

You must be prepared to follow through. Always Be Interviewing. Give notice, move, level up, rinse, repeat.

How often can you do this without it being a problem? I'm trying to make it past a year at current job, it definitely requires discipline to see it through. I don't want to be a job hopper but there are always shiny new opportunities.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job?

#10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be prepared to follow through. Always Be Interviewing. Give notice, move, level up, rinse, repeat.

How often can you do this without it being a problem? I'm trying to make it past a year at current job, it definitely requires discipline to see it through. I don't want to be a job hopper but there are always shiny new opportunities.

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