Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why some Japanese pensioners want to go to jail

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 116 posts

Re: Why some Japanese pensioners want to go to jail

#61

Post by userulluipeste »

Aeolun wrote: post #52
userulluipeste wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When pensioners or just any adult prefers jail to freedom, it makes you think we failed something as a society." I don't see any reason to take people like myself accountable for the current state of society I inherited from the now pensioner generation, so let me rephrase the last part: "it makes you think they failed something as a society."

Why shouldn’t we hold ourselves responsible for the current state of society? What we inherited is done, we can’t change that any more. But we can certainly make tomorrow a little bit better than yesterday.

I consider that I'll be liable to this kind of judgement after most of my potential and actions are in past's domain. For now we may be responsible for where we're taking the current state further on but not so much for what we have. What we have now is for the most part inherited, so we should thank the past generations for it, especially so when it's about casting blame for something affecting the said past generations, obviously!

Re: Why some Japanese pensioners want to go to jail

#62

Post by NikolaeVarius »

dmos62 wrote: post #57
ezoe wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious belief? It's more like moral and constitutional basic human right issue.

Are you saying that it's a basic human right to choose whether or not to live, or that it's a right to not have a right to choose? The former would be a very weird statement.

I subscribe to former and I have no ides why you think its weird. The choice of continued concious existence is literally the only real natural right we have.

Re: Why some Japanese pensioners want to go to jail

#63

Post by pluma »

beaconstudios wrote: post #50
ljf wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look into prisons in Denmark - far closer to hostels or even universities halls of residence. So much so that they encourage you people to live in them too.

this seems more humanitarian, but doesn't it reduce the disincentive to commit another crime, especially for people from unstable or low-income backgrounds where the prison may be more pleasant than home? Most prisons around the world seem to be far too inhumane but I can't help but wonder if you can go too far in the other direction.

Please watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYj_FPT90cM (it's about Norway, which has very humanitarian prisons)

The short version is that a naive comparison shows that recidivism in Norway is much lower than in the US, a more thorough comparison shows that recidivism is actually not so different. But either way, making prisons worse doesn't actually help fighting crime. So the decision whether prisoners should be treated humanely or not is more about ideology than effectiveness.

And personally I think humans should be treated humanely, no matter what they did.

Re: Why some Japanese pensioners want to go to jail

#64

Post by ekianjo »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #53
ekianjo wrote: post #42

> Japan is in the grip of an elderly crime wave - the proportion of crimes committed by people over the age of 65 has been steadily increasing for 20 years Journalist does not get stats. Its increasing in absolute numbers because the population over 65 is exploding as baby boomers come in that range. In relative proportion its not increasing at all.

Seems like the article caters for it well enough. In relative proportion it's increasing: "In 1997 this age group accounted for about one in 20 convictions but 20 years later the figure had grown to more than one in five - a rate that far outstrips the growth of the over-65s as a proportion of the population"

You missed the next sentence:

> nd like Toshio, many of these elderly lawbreakers are repeat offenders. Of the 2,500 over-65s convicted in 2016, more than a third had more than five previous convictions.

Those are not unique offenders. Somebody who commits multiple infractions is counted several times.

Re: Why some Japanese pensioners want to go to jail

#65

Post by dmos62 »

rfw wrote: post #8
moltar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda agree but it also depends on the jail. I imagine Japanese jails are nice, esp for small crimes. I’ve seen Nordik jails in a documentary and I’d totally pick that over many other places to live, if I was not able to afford living.

It really doesn't depend on the jail, at all. Having to be incarcerated to have a good livelihood is unforgivably disgusting.

Some people seek a different kind of freedom, that that which is taken away by some jails, or maybe they don't seek freedom at all, rather comfort. Which is very sad and normal.

I sometimes think that I'd find it therapeutic to stay in a fitting prison. Some maybe relevant characteristics of mine are that I often seek isolation, and my creative activities are fully isolated of any direct social contact.

Re: Why some Japanese pensioners want to go to jail

#66

Post by ekianjo »

dagw wrote: post #55
ekianjo wrote: post #42

> Japan is in the grip of an elderly crime wave - the proportion of crimes committed by people over the age of 65 has been steadily increasing for 20 years Journalist does not get stats. Its increasing in absolute numbers because the population over 65 is exploding as baby boomers come in that range. In relative proportion its not increasing at all.

In relative proportion its not increasing at all. The graph/data from the Japanese Justice Ministry presented in the article strongly disagrees with you.

Nope it does not. It calculates the number of offenses per age group and it's perfectly NORMAL the percentage increases as the percentage of older people increases as well:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Ja...

What you need to prove me I am completely wrong is a subset of 65 years old and older over time, as a single segment, and show me that in that segment there is large increase in percentage. That's not at all what the graphs shows.

Re: Why some Japanese pensioners want to go to jail

#67

Post by ekianjo »

ezoe wrote: post #47
ekianjo wrote: post #42

> Japan is in the grip of an elderly crime wave - the proportion of crimes committed by people over the age of 65 has been steadily increasing for 20 years Journalist does not get stats. Its increasing in absolute numbers because the population over 65 is exploding as baby boomers come in that range. In relative proportion its not increasing at all.

Actually, Japan crime rate is high in elderly population. It use to be relatively rare, but now it's relatively high.

Again this article shows absolutely no evidence of this. None of the graphs support this hypothesis (since they can be explained in other ways). See my other comments.

Re: Why some Japanese pensioners want to go to jail

#68

Post by tokyodude »

whitepoplar wrote: post #7

My parents are set to turn 70 next year and I worry so much about their wellbeing when they get older. My dad, in particular, is a generally happy person, but doesn't have many friends. I worry that if my mom passes before him, he's going to have a rough time. I feel guilty because I'm one of those children described in the article who moved to another city to chase economic + social activity.

Total non sequitur but I think there is an opportunity for old folks homes with organized lan/online gaming. Probably still 15-30 years out until games start entering retirement communities in droves but maybe with the right promotion it could get started earlier?

Re: Why some Japanese pensioners want to go to jail

#69

Post by dagw »

ekianjo wrote: post #66
dagw wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In relative proportion its not increasing at all. The graph/data from the Japanese Justice Ministry presented in the article strongly disagrees with you.

Nope it does not. It calculates the number of offenses per age group and it's perfectly NORMAL the percentage increases as the percentage of older people increases as well: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Ja... What you need to prove me I am completely wrong is a subset of 65 years old and older over time, as a single segment, and show me that in that segment there is large increase in perce…

My mistake. You're right, I'm wrong.

Re: Why some Japanese pensioners want to go to jail

#70

Post by ekianjo »

dagw wrote: post #69
ekianjo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope it does not. It calculates the number of offenses per age group and it's perfectly NORMAL the percentage increases as the percentage of older people increases as well: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Ja... What you need to prove me I am completely wrong is a subset of 65 years old and older over time, as a single segment, and show me that in that segment there is large increase in perce…

My mistake. You're right, I'm wrong.

No problem. Happens to all of us at some point.
Post reply on HN