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Boeing 787 Suffers Rare Dual Engine Failure on Landing

thepointsguy.com

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Re: Boeing 787 Suffers Rare Dual Engine Failure on Landing

#321

I hope people are beginning to understand that the presence of software in any system is a liability.

More precisely. For two systems offering the same functionality, the one that does so using less software should be preferred, because software of any nontrivial complexity is irreducibly buggy.

Re: Boeing 787 Suffers Rare Dual Engine Failure on Landing

#322
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well tested software still has bugs. Ones that haven't been tested for.

So it makes it a not Well tested then if scenarios have not been tested. My point.

For all software that does something useful, there exist scenarios that are not tested.

Re: Boeing 787 Suffers Rare Dual Engine Failure on Landing

#323
post #189

I think the auto shutdown of engines in flight, in case it senses reverse thrust, is a great design. The 787 is a replacement for my 767 (currently a pilot on the aircraft) and in 1991 a Lauda Air 767 suffered a failure in one of its thrust reverser and it became activated during cruise. The aircraft was destroyed in flight. The thrust reversers should not activate during flight (a air/ground sensors prevents that) b…

I am very scared of flying (although I still do it, although it's not fun). Any advice/rationalism you can convey? I am a person that became sweaty and anxious reading your post.

A bit of an extreme solution, but I hear this workshop run by Air France is good. https://www.airfrance.fr/FR/en/common/guidevoyageur/pratique...

Re: Boeing 787 Suffers Rare Dual Engine Failure on Landing

#324
post #189

I think the auto shutdown of engines in flight, in case it senses reverse thrust, is a great design. The 787 is a replacement for my 767 (currently a pilot on the aircraft) and in 1991 a Lauda Air 767 suffered a failure in one of its thrust reverser and it became activated during cruise. The aircraft was destroyed in flight. The thrust reversers should not activate during flight (a air/ground sensors prevents that) b…

I am very scared of flying (although I still do it, although it's not fun). Any advice/rationalism you can convey? I am a person that became sweaty and anxious reading your post.

Airliners are incredibly durable machines. This article about about how much stress the wings can take is what I think about anytime I see the wings bouncing in turbulence.

https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/airplane-...

Then there is this image:

https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/autopia/2010/03/index1.jp...

Re: Boeing 787 Suffers Rare Dual Engine Failure on Landing

#325
post #189

I think the auto shutdown of engines in flight, in case it senses reverse thrust, is a great design. The 787 is a replacement for my 767 (currently a pilot on the aircraft) and in 1991 a Lauda Air 767 suffered a failure in one of its thrust reverser and it became activated during cruise. The aircraft was destroyed in flight. The thrust reversers should not activate during flight (a air/ground sensors prevents that) b…

I am very scared of flying (although I still do it, although it's not fun). Any advice/rationalism you can convey? I am a person that became sweaty and anxious reading your post.

I feel for you. I was the same way. I just internalized the stats and remind myself of them every time I fly. As a numbers guy, I simply cannot justify my abject fear compared to being a pedestrian or auto driver.

Another thing I do is to remember the physics when I'm on a bumpy. Thanks to momentum, planes don't just fall out of the sky, and even bad turbulence is not likely to result in deaths.

Re: Boeing 787 Suffers Rare Dual Engine Failure on Landing

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Boeing still puts the RAT - ram-air turbine - electrical backup system on their planes.

Why "still"? Even if the chances of a failure of both engines is almost zero, it has happened that there are losses of fuel. The ram-air turbine allows the pilots to have some instrumentation. That's super useful, for example in this accident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236

“Still” because if you read the parent to my reply he uses that term in his query.

Re: Boeing 787 Suffers Rare Dual Engine Failure on Landing

#327

This is really strange. Not only did they have a dual engine failure, they couldn't restart while stuck on the runway. After 40 minutes, the aircraft had to be towed in. Then maintenance couldn't find a fault. This is an ANA aircraft, which means it's probably maintained well and flown by competent pilots. Looking forward to a good analysis on this. Most large aircraft have a "weight on wheels" switch, activated when…

Your speculative scenario has actually happened, but on a significantly less computerized Boeing 737, in 1978.[1]

In that case, the aircraft touched down, reversers were deployed, a runway obstacle (a snowplow) appeared, and the pilots attempted to go around. They got airborne and cleared the obstacle, but as they lifted off, the "squat switches" on the main gear opened. One of the reversers was still deployed, and with the squat switches open, was no longer powered, and could not retract. The aircraft was uncontrollable, and crashed.

In that case, shutting down the reversed engine would likely have been preferable, although if we're doing counter-factuals, telling the snowplow driver about the airplane's revised arrival time is your go-to move, I think.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Western_Airlines_Fligh...

Re: Boeing 787 Suffers Rare Dual Engine Failure on Landing

#328
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very scared of flying (although I still do it, although it's not fun). Any advice/rationalism you can convey? I am a person that became sweaty and anxious reading your post.

My advice is to look at the statistics. Commercial flying is much, much safer than any other mode of transport. Do you get scared when you drive to work? Or take a train? Both are more risky. (Driving significantly so.) More specifically... The pilots have extensive training, modern airliners have fail safes everywhere, and the amount of research and engineering spent on aviation safety is mind boggling. See: http://…

An accident during flight is pretty much a binary event when it comes down to whether you live or not, but with cars there is a whole slew of different types of accidents and vast majority of them don't cause instant death preceded by 45 seconds of absolute terror. Before you downvote what I said in no way discounts the statistics. It is much safer to fly of course than to drive, but when we think of accidents which is an inevitable fact of any mode of travel one mode is binary you live or die and another not. To our mammalian brains the statistics is a very hard sell.

Re: Boeing 787 Suffers Rare Dual Engine Failure on Landing

#329
post #189

I think the auto shutdown of engines in flight, in case it senses reverse thrust, is a great design. The 787 is a replacement for my 767 (currently a pilot on the aircraft) and in 1991 a Lauda Air 767 suffered a failure in one of its thrust reverser and it became activated during cruise. The aircraft was destroyed in flight. The thrust reversers should not activate during flight (a air/ground sensors prevents that) b…

I am very scared of flying (although I still do it, although it's not fun). Any advice/rationalism you can convey? I am a person that became sweaty and anxious reading your post.

I was not scared of flying until one day while taking off from O’Hare lightning stroke to the tip of the left wing of my plane. I was sitting just on that row aisle side though. For a split second it felt like we stoped mid air. Kind of like when you drive over a bump with your car. After that for quite a while I was scared shitless of flying. But that didnt stop me I probably flew a hundred times since then and now when I do I dont even think about whether I am on a plane or train ( well my be for a bit). Airplanes are incredibly robust machines so my advice is just stop thinking about it and keep flying.

Re: Boeing 787 Suffers Rare Dual Engine Failure on Landing

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always amazed how diverse the people on HN are. Not everyone is an IT professional but we share a passion for technology.

'Passionate' is not the adjective I would use to describe my feelings towards technology.

Maybe more like passion in the "crime of..." sense?
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