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Launch HN: DevFlight (YC W19) – Helping open-source maintainers make money

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Re: Launch HN: DevFlight (YC W19) – Helping open-source maintainers make money

#31
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a naive thing to say. Open-source work doesn’t become purer when underpaid. Making open-source pay better for everyone , not just a privileged few, will allow more people to join the open-source movement, raising the standard of software quality for everyone. Helping open-source maintainers get paid is better for open-source. I think what the Devflight people are trying to do is admirable. I hope they succeed…

Everyone who? It's highly unlikely that companies will pay an awful lot of money to these maintainers anyways, so only the less "priviled" (i.e. second/third world citizens mostly) will benefit. Moreover, while some individual maintainers will gain in short term, the developers as a workforce will definitely lose (because certain tasks are taken from freelancers, contract workers and employees and distributed to, wel…

Can I ask. Do you write or maintain OSS code? Do you have large number of users? Do you work full time on OSS? Because your opinions are incredibly naive.

Re: Launch HN: DevFlight (YC W19) – Helping open-source maintainers make money

#33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone who? It's highly unlikely that companies will pay an awful lot of money to these maintainers anyways, so only the less "priviled" (i.e. second/third world citizens mostly) will benefit. Moreover, while some individual maintainers will gain in short term, the developers as a workforce will definitely lose (because certain tasks are taken from freelancers, contract workers and employees and distributed to, wel…

Can I ask. Do you write or maintain OSS code? Do you have large number of users? Do you work full time on OSS? Because your opinions are incredibly naive.

That's completely irrelevant. Working full time on OSS means being a businessman in disguise (and, arguably, perverts the very ideas of free OSS), so we're on the opposite sides of the fence, I presume. Or do you live off something else and work on your projects completely out of sheer altruism?

Re: Launch HN: DevFlight (YC W19) – Helping open-source maintainers make money

#34
It looks like DevFlight's focus is on identifying active revenue streams for maintainers, based on whatever aspects the maintainer is flexible in commercializing (priority support, feature requests, etc). That's an awesome way to help create revenue without splitting the maintainers' attention between sales and the project.

A tangentially related idea I've had for helping fund OSS is offering a service that generates a passive revenue stream for projects via merchandise/swag sales. Essentially, the project gives you a license to use their IP (logos, slogans, trademarks, etc) for use on merchandise, then you operate an online store that provides branded merchandise for the project and provide a royalty back to the project based on a percentage of profit.

It can be as passive as the maintainers want, other than (potentially) creating a CNAME to the online store and adding a link to their website. All of the operational aspects of running an online store are completely abstracted from the maintainer, and they just get a periodic royalty payment. Or as active as they want, if the maintainers want to take part in designing (or approving) the merchandise, promoting it, etc.

The passive version also works perfectly for 501(c)3 non-profits, as the royalty payments would qualify as an exception to the "unrelated business income" rules and be considered tax-exempt revenue[1].

The size of the revenue stream is pretty proportional to the popularity of your project, so hidden projects with lots of indirect users would likely only generate a modest amount of revenue. But projects with a lot of direct users/site traffic or an engaged/passionate community would likely be a hit, from individuals buying stuff directly to manager's buying swag for their team.

If there are any project maintainers that would be interested in exploring the idea, please reach out (email in profile)! I can cover the execution side of things, and would love the chance to validate the model.

[1] Based on a naive reading of https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p598.pdf

Re: Launch HN: DevFlight (YC W19) – Helping open-source maintainers make money

#35
For anyone interested in the difficulty in maintaining huge OSS projects, I found this episode of ShopTalkShow with Henry Zhu (maintainer of Babel.js) fascinating:

https://shoptalkshow.com/episodes/344/

One guy maintaining code that powers tons of development workflows, funded completely on donations. He spends much of the show wondering out loud just how the heck he's going to make it work!

Re: Launch HN: DevFlight (YC W19) – Helping open-source maintainers make money

#36
post #34

It looks like DevFlight's focus is on identifying active revenue streams for maintainers, based on whatever aspects the maintainer is flexible in commercializing (priority support, feature requests, etc). That's an awesome way to help create revenue without splitting the maintainers' attention between sales and the project. A tangentially related idea I've had for helping fund OSS is offering a service that generates…

I also like that DevFlight works with individual maintainers, rather than with projects. Many prolific maintainers work with several projects. They may not have created any of those projects, and they may not run them either. When the spotlight is on the project (and by extension the founders of "top dogs" of that project), those valuable maintainers get ignored. I'm glad DevFlight is focusing on the individual.

Re: Launch HN: DevFlight (YC W19) – Helping open-source maintainers make money

#37
I really like this idea.

I'm looking for new opportunities in the market and one of the things that I would really love to do is work 100% of my time with opensource projects (as I had in the past until management decided to make my main repository private - one of the reasons why I'm thinking about moving forward) and I really believe there is space for donation-based systems to grow because most I have seen so far seems good enough but something important should be missing because I don't see too many projects getting donations and many times the total amount is just barely enough for going to a nice restaurant once a week.

Maybe something better integrated with GitHub and someone else would be responsible for reaching out people who benefits from the project to ask for donations would work out better.

Re: Launch HN: DevFlight (YC W19) – Helping open-source maintainers make money

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have anything to back that up, because it directly contradicts my experience. I've only seen people paid to work on the biggest projects, often only when it's become entrenched in everybody's workflow (Linux, some GCC developers, some Python devs), had the source code released after closed development (OpenSolaris, Firefox), or got taken over by corporation (Clang and Apple, khtml/webkit/Chromium with Google a…

> Do you have anything to back that up Have you read Berdou's PhD research on the topic? http://www.lse.ac.uk/media@lse/study/pdf/PhD_Berdou_2007.pdf Paid developers are more likely to maintain critical parts of open source code bases.

I had not, but it seems to back up my point.

From the Overview section: "F/OS software is developed by online communities of globally distributed contributors, the majority of whom are volunteers who rarely meet face to face."

And it uses KDE and GNOME as case studies, which are both very large, entrenched projects that are subsidized by companies like Red Hat and Canonical.

What I'm getting at, though, is that if you pick 1000 arbitrary repos on GitHub (or BitBucket or GitLab), 999 of them are not going to have any paid contributors. Once you start filtering by user and/or contributor counts you're removing a large amount of projects that aren't popular, but never the less count as open source projects.

Re: Launch HN: DevFlight (YC W19) – Helping open-source maintainers make money

#39
I like the ideal. Something certainly needs to be done.

I've mentioned this in other HN threads, what I'd like to see is a donation system integrated into the Git platform (e.g., GitHub, GitLab, etc.). In short, I buy credits and give them to projects as I see fit. Those projects could in turn give credits, or cash out. The credits can also be used to pay feature bounties and award contribuors.

Sure. Parhaps I only give $5 here or $20 there, but the ease would add up. With the key being the ecosystem created.

Somethink like that.

Re: Launch HN: DevFlight (YC W19) – Helping open-source maintainers make money

#40

For anyone interested in the difficulty in maintaining huge OSS projects, I found this episode of ShopTalkShow with Henry Zhu (maintainer of Babel.js) fascinating: https://shoptalkshow.com/episodes/344/ One guy maintaining code that powers tons of development workflows, funded completely on donations. He spends much of the show wondering out loud just how the heck he's going to make it work!

Very fascinating, I will definitely listen to this. Thanks for sharing!
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