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Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

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Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#71

Post by monocasa »

entity345 wrote: post #62
bassman9000 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US economic hegemony will last as long as they retain the strongest Navy, by a huge margin, and world commerce veins remain to be the oceans and seas. Which, unless blimps take over soon, will be until the advent of the space elevator.

The military buys you political influence. Economic power (and that also buys you political influence) comes from the size of the economy. The size of the economy enables military power. China (and India) have 4x the US' population. China's land area is the same as the US'. It's simply a matter of time for them to be more powerful economically than the US, and then it's really up to them to also topple the US militar…

And China's planning for this. See their DF-26 "carrier killer" missiles.

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#73

Post by NicoJuicy »

chriselles wrote: post #70

Hi All, I’m working on a submission envisioning the environment in 2030. Looking at China’s stated “One Belt, One Road” initiative, is it feasible this could expand? Soecifically, to include: “One Platform, One Network” By that I mean the deep integration and alignment between the Chinese government and BAT(Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent) enabling a shift from rising Superpower to Superplatform primacy. Superplatform > Supe…

Only if dictatorship ( of countries) are ruling the world.

Currently, I don't see it happening. The greatest interest is in duplicating the great firewall.

Then some competition for payment systems exists, but it's currently based on giving Chinese expats an alternative payment method.

A.I. will have an advantage in China because of the extreme adoption. But I don't see worldwide adoption because of the language barrier. The world speaks English currently, which is a huge influencer/barrier.

They are trying to change things with Chinese universities.

Not sure where it will end.

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#74

Post by chriselles »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #73
chriselles wrote: post #70

Hi All, I’m working on a submission envisioning the environment in 2030. Looking at China’s stated “One Belt, One Road” initiative, is it feasible this could expand? Soecifically, to include: “One Platform, One Network” By that I mean the deep integration and alignment between the Chinese government and BAT(Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent) enabling a shift from rising Superpower to Superplatform primacy. Superplatform > Supe…

Only if dictatorship ( of countries) are ruling the world. Currently, I don't see it happening. The greatest interest is in duplicating the great firewall. Then some competition for payment systems exists, but it's currently based on giving Chinese expats an alternative payment method. A.I. will have an advantage in China because of the extreme adoption. But I don't see worldwide adoption because of the language barr…

Agreed that dictatorships/authoritarianism is not preferred option.

But does the integration of China/BAT offer an opportunity for China to inject it’s near 100% ubiquity of its domestic platforms onto its trading partners via debt trap diplomacy?

Does the incredibly high level of Chinese government/commercial platform integration and ubiquity provide a competitive advantage with the bottom half of the planet over the US/FAANG?

Would the extension of China/BAT to developing world countries with less than stellar records of freedom and Nd human rights provide a platform for both growth and sustainment of power?

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#75

Post by [deleted] »

yourbandsucks wrote: post #66
Pharmakon wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, no. There is a difference between conquering a country and forging an agreement to build a base. The U.S. form of influence, while still questionable in its morality, is a lot less intrusive. For all that America gets a bad rap for subverting world culture, it’s largly the case that it’s the result of selling people things they want, including movies, music, food, etc. for all that the French rant about A…

This thread isn't about morality, it's about decline. I was comparing the state of American hegemony to that of Britain in 1946.

[deleted]

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#76

Post by NicoJuicy »

chriselles wrote: post #74
NicoJuicy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if dictatorship ( of countries) are ruling the world. Currently, I don't see it happening. The greatest interest is in duplicating the great firewall. Then some competition for payment systems exists, but it's currently based on giving Chinese expats an alternative payment method. A.I. will have an advantage in China because of the extreme adoption. But I don't see worldwide adoption because of the language barr…

Agreed that dictatorships/authoritarianism is not preferred option. But does the integration of China/BAT offer an opportunity for China to inject it’s near 100% ubiquity of its domestic platforms onto its trading partners via debt trap diplomacy? Does the incredibly high level of Chinese government/commercial platform integration and ubiquity provide a competitive advantage with the bottom half of the planet over th…

debt trap diplomacy vs democracy is my guess why they will fail.

Racism in China is extreme and as soon as the outsiders leave China for that reason, the cookie will crumble. Chinese only look out for themselves

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#77

Post by petre »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #58
ajmurmann wrote: post #15

This reminds me of Zbigniew Brzezinski's The Grant Chessboard. It describes how the US secured its empire. China is not only building for economic growth but also building up valuable relationships and influence. Also keep in mind that one of Rome's greatest military innovations might have been its roads. Meanwhile the US is seems to be played by everyone from the outside and tearing itself apart from the inside. It…

Rome doesn't exist anymore. They got attacked on all fronts. What China is doing is modern colonization through loans and I can only see it backfire. It's a great scheme though, but at least Rome owned the places where it builded roads. Edit: downvotes, please comment why. I'll rather discuss :)

They built roads to invade those places in the first place, long before they "owned" them, dug out the gold and sent it to Rome.

I'm not sure the Chinese strategy will work or if they'll see enough growth to support it. It's quite scary. I think I'd much rather prefer US bases to Chinese loans.

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#78

Post by Pharmakon »

yourbandsucks wrote: post #66
Pharmakon wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, no. There is a difference between conquering a country and forging an agreement to build a base. The U.S. form of influence, while still questionable in its morality, is a lot less intrusive. For all that America gets a bad rap for subverting world culture, it’s largly the case that it’s the result of selling people things they want, including movies, music, food, etc. for all that the French rant about A…

This thread isn't about morality, it's about decline. I was comparing the state of American hegemony to that of Britain in 1946.

This thread isn't about morality, it's about decline. I was comparing the state of American hegemony to that of Britain in 1946.

Right, and I ignored the morality of both and focused on the massive practical differences. So what’s the problem? They are manifestly different in almost every way, except possibly for aspects of the moral dimension which were both agreeing to ignore.

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#79

Post by civilitty »

yourbandsucks wrote: post #66
Pharmakon wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, no. There is a difference between conquering a country and forging an agreement to build a base. The U.S. form of influence, while still questionable in its morality, is a lot less intrusive. For all that America gets a bad rap for subverting world culture, it’s largly the case that it’s the result of selling people things they want, including movies, music, food, etc. for all that the French rant about A…

This thread isn't about morality, it's about decline. I was comparing the state of American hegemony to that of Britain in 1946.

Morality is orthogonal to their main point, which is that American influence in the world isn't built on military strength but by forging (usually) mutually beneficial military and trade relationships. It is through those relationships that the US is able to project force and maintain hundreds of forward operating bases, not by invading the countries and putting down fortresses that then have to be constantly defended against the local populace (for the most part).

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#80

Post by petre »

siffland wrote: post #30
ksdale wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could have said the same thing about China 50 years ago. Places aren’t appropriate for investment until they are, and then the change that can take place is staggering.

I agree, the disdain China has for the US and the Tiawan issues and other factors are causing this administration to do some crazy things (it will probably change in 2 years when elections are held again in the U.S.). I mean we (U.S. citizens) are being advised not to travel to China for risk of being detained and prevented from leaving the country (I mean they execute drug traffickers from Canada, pretty harsh). I d…

China did some crazy things during Xi. Like South China Sea military bases to bully other states, recent reactions against Taiwan etc. I would not fully blame your current administration since China probably had it coming.

And not Apple, but it's supplier Foxconn is shifting production to India.

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