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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

workingwa.org

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#641

Post by kofejnik »

FireBeyond wrote: post #353
airstrike wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever seen anyone accurately report tips earned in cash?

If they're under the IRS estimate? Absolutely. Above? Not so much. A lot of wait staff seem content to push mis-information: "If you tip poorly, the IRS makes us pay tax on it anyway, i.e. we're having to pay to serve you!" No, the IRS makes an estimate on how much tipped workers are paid. If you document and it's less, then you pay tax on that. But using the IRS as the big bad wolf to get more tips that you know dam…

> 20% should be a baseline, for bad service, 25 for "decent" and 30% for good service...

where does this insanity stop? 50%? 100%? No matter how much you tip, people will grow to expect it as baseline, and then some more

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#642

Post by masonic »

kakarot wrote: post #629
jlarocco wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tip pooling/sharing is different in a few significant ways, though. First, restaurant staff always know ahead of time if they have to share tips. And their hourly compensation, as ridiculously low as it may be, is never adjusted to compensate for higher than normal tips. And, finally, in most restaurants the tip pool is also split up with bussers, bartenders, and hosts who don't always make tips of their own, but sti…

At my first waiting job, we didn't report our full tips because if our income including tips surpassed $8, our salary would be reduced. With the "benefit" that if we made less than minimum wage, we would be compensated. However base pay was $2.50/hour + tips, so do the math. Yet somehow the system only ever seems to work in one direction. I once had to pay $20 after working an 8-hour shift before leaving home under t…

  Somehow my responsibility
Right-to-work state or not, I know if no state in which that $20 clawback (as you describe it) was legal.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#645

Post by icebraining »

nerpderp83 wrote: post #512
lenticular wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why this is being downvoted, as you absolutely are not wrong about this. They are independent contractors who entered into a contract just like a restaurant could contract with a food supplier. They aren't employees in the least as far as the law is concerned.

How and why are you so vehemently defending instacart when it comes to WA state law?

Is lenticular defending Instacart? It helps no one - much less the victims - to inaccurately portray their legal situation.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#646

Post by kakarot »

masonic wrote: post #642
kakarot wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my first waiting job, we didn't report our full tips because if our income including tips surpassed $8, our salary would be reduced. With the "benefit" that if we made less than minimum wage, we would be compensated. However base pay was $2.50/hour + tips, so do the math. Yet somehow the system only ever seems to work in one direction. I once had to pay $20 after working an 8-hour shift before leaving home under t…

Somehow my responsibility Right-to-work state or not, I know if no state in which that $20 clawback (as you describe it) was legal.

I have no doubt it was considerably illegal, however I would have been terminated immediately in a town where finding another job without a vehicle or parents would have been impossible, and since I was living on my own as a minor at this time it was pretty important that I maintained income.

After several more undoubtedly illegal maneuvers by a new manager to fire me and other waitstaff so that he could replace them with random girls he wanted to work for him so he could hit on them, being taken off payroll without clearing it with the senior manager, and afterwards being reduced to a single day a week on the slowest days, I quit.

I then had to leave the place I was living at two months later to a brand new city, contracted mononucleosis, and, not having any saved up money after quitting this job and unable to work due to being bedridden for 4-5 months, basically starved myself into extreme malnutrition other than the food I could steal and scavenge, surfing from couch to couch. So, essentially my worst fears about quitting my job over illegal practices were realized.

I could also tell you stories from other jobs about bosses pulling firearms on me, commanding me to do straight up illegal things like lie to the police, illegally withholding paychecks for entire staff for months at a time, illegal unpaid overtime, slashing wages between paychecks, working me into extreme injury from RSI and then subverting my ability to collect comp, firing me over "clerical errors" for trying to cancel a shift I didn't even mean to sign up for on a stupid new workforce app after my boss explicitly lying about my employment not being in jeopardy, etc, and all of the hardships I had to endure for leaving each of these jobs at my breaking point.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#647

Post by jawns »

sneak wrote: post #379
tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

It is important to be tipping in cash to begin with. Anyone doing unskilled labor and getting tips is not likely in a position to be able to afford the income tax on those tips. Always tip in cash.

Keep in mind that if they're not earning much, they're probably not paying any income tax at all, and until they're earning at least $38,700, the most they'll be taxed on their taxable income is 12%.

I don't think that supporting tax evasion should be a primary reason for tipping in cash.

But there are other reasons why tipping in cash is a good idea, such as making sure that the money actually goes to the worker, and knowing that they'll have immediate access to it, rather than having to wait until their next paycheck.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#648

Post by collyw »

mxfh wrote: post #430
rafiki6 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many people just haven't traveled to for e.g. many European countries where tipping culture is mostly non-existent because over there people the service industry receive appropriate wages and the prices of things are adjusted accordingly. The quality of service is good, and the people working seem much happier. They have a guaranteed income for their time.

As a customer tipping culture is highly annyoing to me, I don't want to be upsold three times per dining at least. The attention given, coming form european non-tipping culture, just feels absurdly fake to me. I feel sorry about this, but from my experience, the only other business that comes to mind, that is so build on 1-on-1 flattering "good choice sir" and selling attention to me is prostitution. I mostly don't n…

>The attention given, coming form european non-tipping culture, just feels absurdly fake to me.

Agreed.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#649

Post by isostatic »

alasdair_ wrote: post #584
loeg wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And their hourly compensation, as ridiculously low as it may be, is never adjusted to compensate for higher than normal tips. This varies by state. Google "server wage" and your blood will boil. It's illegal in WA, though — servers make standard minimum wage and employers can't take servers' tips.

It’s somewhat bullshit that the people who did all the work making the tasty meal get nothing, while the person handing it to you gets 20 percent. Especially when Seattle minimum wage is $15/hour and tips cannot count as part of that.

Yes, tips are bullshit

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#650

Post by zymhan »

campl3r wrote: post #608
rafiki6 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many people just haven't traveled to for e.g. many European countries where tipping culture is mostly non-existent because over there people the service industry receive appropriate wages and the prices of things are adjusted accordingly. The quality of service is good, and the people working seem much happier. They have a guaranteed income for their time.

as a European I must disagree about the quality of service. I only was a few months in the US, but the quality of service was much better than here. I don't know if there's a correlation with tipping though.

As an American I also agree, since restaurants in Europe have to pay a higher wage, they can only afford a couple wait staff, which definitely makes it harder to get service.

Waiters in Europe also seem to be less interested in coming to your table.

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