Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip • Hacker News Board

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#631

Post by andai » Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 9:44 AM UTC

Tor3 wrote: post #626

atombender wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe the cultural meaning of a tip is also different than the US -- you tip for superb service, and it's generally only in restaurants.

And also (in Europe) most of the time you just add enough tip to round off the number. E.g. if it's 390 you pay 400. Locals (mostly) never tip too much. Particularly in countries where people eat outside often, e.g. Italy. You add that little extra to round up the total, never mind how many people you are in the group. Tourists usually tip way too much. There's no tipping in Japan, and people get offended if you try…

Why do they get offended?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#632

Post by andai » Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 9:48 AM UTC

campl3r wrote: post #608

rafiki6 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many people just haven't traveled to for e.g. many European countries where tipping culture is mostly non-existent because over there people the service industry receive appropriate wages and the prices of things are adjusted accordingly. The quality of service is good, and the people working seem much happier. They have a guaranteed income for their time.

as a European I must disagree about the quality of service. I only was a few months in the US, but the quality of service was much better than here. I don't know if there's a correlation with tipping though.

As a European who regularly experiences atrocious QoS in restaurants, I'd be willing to bet it has something to do with the fact they get paid a decent wage whether or not they even notice the customer.

As a customer I prefer "fake" service over being ignored, but as an employee I would prefer the European system.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#633

Post by Tor3 » Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 9:49 AM UTC

andai wrote: post #631

Tor3 wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also (in Europe) most of the time you just add enough tip to round off the number. E.g. if it's 390 you pay 400. Locals (mostly) never tip too much. Particularly in countries where people eat outside often, e.g. Italy. You add that little extra to round up the total, never mind how many people you are in the group. Tourists usually tip way too much. There's no tipping in Japan, and people get offended if you try…

Why do they get offended?

It's better explained on this page than how I can explain it: https://www.tripsavvy.com/tipping-in-japan-1458316

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#634

Post by andai » Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 9:50 AM UTC

smileysteve wrote: post #514

mruts wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it should start with you right? Are you willing to never tip again in your entire life? If so, let us know how it goes (or maybe is going?) Or, alternatively, maybe you don't live in a country with a tipping culture. And if so, then tipping doesn't really affect you. People like to tip. I like to tip. Waiters and waitresses like to be tipped. My wife used to work as a waitress and would clear over $300 a night i…

> Waiters and waitresses like to be tipped Waiters and waitresses HATE to NOT be tipped in a world where it's their livelihood. And studies have shown that this leads to racist, classist, and sexism within the service industry. - Studies show that non-caucasians receive worse service because they are perceived as likely to tip less. - Studies show that a high class restaurant server gets more in tips than a medium cl…

Following that last point, it sounds like customer preference is shaping the demographics. If people prefer to be served by women, and tip them more, the field will skew female.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#635

Post by kofejnik » Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 9:56 AM UTC

mannykannot wrote: post #91

_t2kx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. This is 100% wage theft.

And while it is not as important an issue, I, as a tipper, feel that I have been defrauded when this happens (now that I am aware that this does happen, I assume that it has probably been done with some tips I have made.) To be clear: this is not an alternative way of looking at the issue, it is an additional indictment stemming from the practice.

and it also reinforces the point that the whole tipping culture is ridiculous

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#636

Post by garmaine » Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 9:58 AM UTC

pkaye wrote: post #498

FireBeyond wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so, but WA State Labor and Industries is not quite so "generous" to the gig economy, including their test for contractors, which is a bit more ... "rigorous" ... than some startups would like: Does the independent contractor bring more than their personal labor? Do they hire crew of their own or are they bringing other employees? Or, are they bringing heavy or costly specialized equipment? Are they an establish…

All great questions but what has the state labor board not been enforcing it on Instacart up to now?

Regulations typically aren’t proactively enforced, but retroactively penalized.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#637

Post by kofejnik » Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 10:00 AM UTC

MisterTea wrote: post #420

tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

> At a minimum I'm going to be tipping in cash. Do the right thing. Take a stand for human decency and make a compromise by closing your instacart account now . Absorb the inconvenience and do your own shopping. And make sure to tell instacart to (insert profanity of choice) if you can while closing your account. That behaviour is low down and dirty. Shady craigs list used car dealer level stuff. I just walked three…

maybe the right thing is just stopping tipping altogether? Then Instacart will be forced to pay a somewhat reasonable wage

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#638

Post by chrisacky » Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 10:00 AM UTC

What would the worker have received if the customer had tipped $50 on a smaller order? Would Instacart have pocketed the additional $40?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#639

Post by kofejnik » Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 10:02 AM UTC

foobiekr wrote: post #546

tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

Doordash too, apparently: https://notipdoordash.com/ I've tipped a lot on Doordash. I feel ripped off. My company regularly used Doordash for years and made a point of tipping on orders. Crazy.

hmm... what if tipping itself is a problem?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#640

Post by rglullis » Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 10:03 AM UTC

cstrahan wrote: post #606

tlow wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is generally not what the people giving the tips have in mind. Can you substantiate that in any way with any kind of evidence or is it a baseless claim?

I'm just one data point, but I imagine I'm not alone: If I tip someone well, it's because they've been incredibly attentive, kind, accommodating, etc. As much as possible, I want the tip to brighten their day. The effect is greatly diminished if that money is immediately divvied up amongst the other servers, making the difference to what they bring home negligible. I've never worked as a server (though I did work at…

You are not alone, just in a minority of people who are not familiar with something that is almost integral to US culture: that most people in the hospitality/services/restaurant industry depend more on tips than wages, and that the bigger the business (chain restaurants vs small local places) the more likely that their system involves pooling the tip money.