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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

workingwa.org

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#601

Post by foobiekr »

jv22222 wrote: post #599
foobiekr wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doordash too, apparently: https://notipdoordash.com/ I've tipped a lot on Doordash. I feel ripped off. My company regularly used Doordash for years and made a point of tipping on orders. Crazy.

Argh! I'll be closing my DoorDash account right now and also sending that website to anyone I know who uses DoorDash.

I used the support form to request a full refund of the component of all tips that I’ve made that were used to offset DoorDash’s expenses. I doubt they’ll do anything but close the case but it’s wirth the annoyance.

I tried to find a way to close the account but there does not seem to be one.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#602

Post by jv22222 »

foobiekr wrote: post #601
jv22222 wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Argh! I'll be closing my DoorDash account right now and also sending that website to anyone I know who uses DoorDash.

I used the support form to request a full refund of the component of all tips that I’ve made that were used to offset DoorDash’s expenses. I doubt they’ll do anything but close the case but it’s wirth the annoyance. I tried to find a way to close the account but there does not seem to be one.

The reason it pisses me off so much is I have used them like, 3+ times a week for 2 years, and every time I felt good about tipping which of course now feels... well, not good.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#603

Post by hamilyon2 »

What I don't understand is why the law in USA allows someone be employed, and by signing some contract thing still count as if she is not employed.

In Russia, distinction is clear in law. Do you pay her regularly? I. e. at least one a month? Then she is employee, no matter who says what.

I understand less protection for workers, less vacation, less regulation overall, this is all understandable. I don't understand why facts are ignored in favor of words.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#604

Post by xmonkee »

sametmax wrote: post #319
xmonkee wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, what you are describing is capitalism, not democracy. Unfortunately we are so deep into the game now that it's had to imagine a world without it. I understand that it's hard, but try to imagine a world where workers can demand a living wage and not have to rely on the generosity of "good people" for the right to live.

I don't see any link between what I said and capitalism. Thinking of the policical and societal impact of your day to day actions does not only largely go beyong economy, but also doesn't assume the nature of the economic system you are in. The instacart topic is just an example. An example saying, "if your economic system is currently capitalistic, and based on money, then voting with your wallet makes sense". > I u…

> That's so condescending.

I was quoting you from the previous comment

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#605

Post by speedplane »

hamilyon2 wrote: post #603

What I don't understand is why the law in USA allows someone be employed, and by signing some contract thing still count as if she is not employed. In Russia, distinction is clear in law. Do you pay her regularly? I. e. at least one a month? Then she is employee, no matter who says what. I understand less protection for workers, less vacation, less regulation overall, this is all understandable. I don't understand wh…

In the U.S., there is a multi-factor test if someone is an employee. Just paying someone regularly isn't enough. You might get a haircut once a month, but your barber clearly isn't an employee. It requires more, like control over their day-to-day actions, if you provide benefits, and several other factors.

The Russian law may seem clear, but in reality it's just a stand-in for a more complex analysis.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#606

Post by cstrahan »

tlow wrote: post #563
thaumasiotes wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, imagine the scenario where the server just buys a line cook a drink to say thank you. Fraud! That would be a case of the server getting the money and deciding to buy something for the cook. Whereas in an actual tip-sharing restaurant, the server gets his share of the tip pool after the cook's share has already been taken out. He doesn't get a choice in the matter. This is generally not what the people givin…

>This is generally not what the people giving the tips have in mind. Can you substantiate that in any way with any kind of evidence or is it a baseless claim?

I'm just one data point, but I imagine I'm not alone:

If I tip someone well, it's because they've been incredibly attentive, kind, accommodating, etc. As much as possible, I want the tip to brighten their day. The effect is greatly diminished if that money is immediately divvied up amongst the other servers, making the difference to what they bring home negligible.

I've never worked as a server (though I did work at Chik-fil-A in highschool; employees are not allowed to accept tips there), and I did not realize that many restaurants are involved in the handling of tip money, rather than the tips going directly to the respective server.

So, no, that's not what I had in mind.

Why should anyone expect that sort of handling of tips? Not everyone has worked a job involving tips. I didn't. Should I have spontaneously asked one of my server friends "hey, btw, how are tips handled at your job? Like, I suspect that when I tip someone, you know, that money goes to them, because after all, I gave it to that person and not the restaurant and not anyone else, but just in case I'm mistaken, could you tell me what happens with the tip money after I leave it on the table? It's a question that's been gnawing at the back of my mind, and I just had to ask!"

My point being: unless you're a server at one of those restaurants, how would you know that your server doesn't get the tip you left for them? Could you substantiate such a claim?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#607

Post by bscphil »

foobiekr wrote: post #546
tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

Doordash too, apparently: https://notipdoordash.com/ I've tipped a lot on Doordash. I feel ripped off. My company regularly used Doordash for years and made a point of tipping on orders. Crazy.

That's disappointing. Anyone heard anything about Grubhub?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#608

Post by campl3r »

rafiki6 wrote: post #390
mxfh wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping is the "trickle down"-myth's small scale cousin. It doesn't only take away responsibility of paying, but adds emotional and mental load cost to the customer. It's hilarious that people accept that in exchange for an illusory level of control (you being the mini manager/boss of your service task) over quality of service.

I think many people just haven't traveled to for e.g. many European countries where tipping culture is mostly non-existent because over there people the service industry receive appropriate wages and the prices of things are adjusted accordingly. The quality of service is good, and the people working seem much happier. They have a guaranteed income for their time.

as a European I must disagree about the quality of service. I only was a few months in the US, but the quality of service was much better than here. I don't know if there's a correlation with tipping though.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#609

Post by kamaal »

alasdair_ wrote: post #584
loeg wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And their hourly compensation, as ridiculously low as it may be, is never adjusted to compensate for higher than normal tips. This varies by state. Google "server wage" and your blood will boil. It's illegal in WA, though — servers make standard minimum wage and employers can't take servers' tips.

It’s somewhat bullshit that the people who did all the work making the tasty meal get nothing, while the person handing it to you gets 20 percent. Especially when Seattle minimum wage is $15/hour and tips cannot count as part of that.

Tip sharing as a concept is well extended.

Having seen the wrong people get rewarded bonuses, RSUs and raises all the time. You are just better off with a salary band/pay grade and give money uniformly across the band.

Ideally 'top performers' are supposed to be rewarded for 'top performance'. But in any subjective evaluation you are just dealing with cooked up documentation to prove a person did something, therefore deserves extra. Pretty much any and anyone's story can be twisted and narrated in a way that could sound positive or negative, to reward or punish respectively.

You are better off with a tip pool and paying it across the band.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#610

Post by foobiekr »

jv22222 wrote: post #602
foobiekr wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used the support form to request a full refund of the component of all tips that I’ve made that were used to offset DoorDash’s expenses. I doubt they’ll do anything but close the case but it’s wirth the annoyance. I tried to find a way to close the account but there does not seem to be one.

The reason it pisses me off so much is I have used them like, 3+ times a week for 2 years, and every time I felt good about tipping which of course now feels... well, not good.

I feel exactly the same about it, albeit weekly for 3ish years.
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