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10-Year-Old Scholar Takes California College By Storm

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Re: 10-Year-Old Scholar Takes California College By Storm

#21

Post by gruseom »

I agree with the commenters who point to the parents. This kind of prodigy is usually the product of an ambitious parent trying to vicariously superachieve. I think that explains why so few go on to great (or even comparable) achievement in later life. It's because they weren't living out their own identity but something that was assigned to them. Sooner or later this is bound to be rejected or otherwise collapse.

The vast majority of children want simply to be like other children and, most of all, to have their parents' love. I believe it is the latter force that drives the typical child prodigy. That is, what drives the achievement is not anything like intellectual passion (which mostly comes later) but a desire for the parent's approval and love. It's sad when that is conditional on mastering calculus at age 8 or what have you.

Re: 10-Year-Old Scholar Takes California College By Storm

#22

Post by brentr »

silencio wrote: post #15
Hexstream wrote: post #3

I think more cases similar to this (ok, maybe not this young, but still) will, or should, happen more in the future. I'm sure there's many opportunities where a kid is actually interested in studies but can't or doesn't go on the "fast track" for various reasons. One reason, I think, is that kids are expected to play non-productive games all the time. Another is that there's this warped, prevalent perspective that wo…

I don't know about that. There are plenty of cases similar to this, and yes, even younger. I got pushed into a gifted program (the highly gifted magnet schools in LAUSD) by my parents. It was boring, and I wish they didn't - the people I met were fantastic but the program itself was the biggest waste of time. Another kid in my class made the papers like this one cause he finished his HS diploma and went on to college…

People who go on to discover great things don't learn from the professors. Let's take math as an example. One creates advances in mathematics by sitting with the literature, a pencil, and a pad. Every great idea comes only after thousands of failed starts.

Re: 10-Year-Old Scholar Takes California College By Storm

#23

Post by lvecsey »

timr wrote: post #8
xlnt wrote: post #5

Maybe pg should have been less negative about the abilities of 10 year olds in his essay. Of course it's hard to know very much by age 10 if your parents lie to you frequently. But that isn't the child's fault.

It doesn't take much insight to see that this kid's life is hyper-scheduled and regulated by his parents. His Dad is "fretting" that his grade in piano will be bad, because he broke his arm in martial arts? Time to get some perspective, Pop.... Point being, this kid doesn't have the experience to know what he's missing by not being a little boy. Who says that his parents are telling him the truth?

Dude can grep wikipedia and has parents that can talk about topics in a deep way, or provide resources to him on topics that interest him. Most parents would do the opposite and restrict internet access for starters, let alone have the ability to assist in his intellectual interests. As far as kid activities his age, I'm sure he would be bored stiff around others. That seems like a blessing to avoid behavior that would no doubt only lead to worse choices later in life.

Re: 10-Year-Old Scholar Takes California College By Storm

#24

Post by timr »

lvecsey wrote: post #23
timr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't take much insight to see that this kid's life is hyper-scheduled and regulated by his parents. His Dad is "fretting" that his grade in piano will be bad, because he broke his arm in martial arts? Time to get some perspective, Pop.... Point being, this kid doesn't have the experience to know what he's missing by not being a little boy. Who says that his parents are telling him the truth?

Dude can grep wikipedia and has parents that can talk about topics in a deep way, or provide resources to him on topics that interest him. Most parents would do the opposite and restrict internet access for starters, let alone have the ability to assist in his intellectual interests. As far as kid activities his age, I'm sure he would be bored stiff around others. That seems like a blessing to avoid behavior that wou…

My instinct is that this kid's parents aren't treating him as an intellectual equal, so much as a lump of raw material to be manipulated.

Re: 10-Year-Old Scholar Takes California College By Storm

#25

Post by brentr »

timr wrote: post #8
xlnt wrote: post #5

Maybe pg should have been less negative about the abilities of 10 year olds in his essay. Of course it's hard to know very much by age 10 if your parents lie to you frequently. But that isn't the child's fault.

It doesn't take much insight to see that this kid's life is hyper-scheduled and regulated by his parents. His Dad is "fretting" that his grade in piano will be bad, because he broke his arm in martial arts? Time to get some perspective, Pop.... Point being, this kid doesn't have the experience to know what he's missing by not being a little boy. Who says that his parents are telling him the truth?

I disagree with the comment about the kid not knowing what he was missing. My parents pushed me in the opposite direction of the direction this kid's parents are pushing him. I resent my parents for that.

I was constantly forced to go outside and do something active. Pursuing intelligence was frowned upon. I am not exaggerating either. My grandmother told my mother, "Don't let those boys grow up to be too intelligent. No one will like them." My mother criticized my intellectual pursuits: "Chess is a stupid hobby."; "People don't need computers." My father was simply hands off. He didn't believe in pushing someone in one direction or another.

My point is this: I had the capability to do university studies at an early age, but my parents denied me that opportunity. I knew what I was missing because I've now experienced university life. The University of Florida was exactly what I imagined a university to be--the freedom to pursue whatever occupied my mind.

Re: 10-Year-Old Scholar Takes California College By Storm

#26

Post by timr »

brentr wrote: post #25
timr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't take much insight to see that this kid's life is hyper-scheduled and regulated by his parents. His Dad is "fretting" that his grade in piano will be bad, because he broke his arm in martial arts? Time to get some perspective, Pop.... Point being, this kid doesn't have the experience to know what he's missing by not being a little boy. Who says that his parents are telling him the truth?

I disagree with the comment about the kid not knowing what he was missing. My parents pushed me in the opposite direction of the direction this kid's parents are pushing him. I resent my parents for that. I was constantly forced to go outside and do something active. Pursuing intelligence was frowned upon. I am not exaggerating either. My grandmother told my mother, "Don't let those boys grow up to be too intelligent…

I think there's a middle ground between your parents and his.

Re: 10-Year-Old Scholar Takes California College By Storm

#27

Post by brentr »

timr wrote: post #26
brentr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the comment about the kid not knowing what he was missing. My parents pushed me in the opposite direction of the direction this kid's parents are pushing him. I resent my parents for that. I was constantly forced to go outside and do something active. Pursuing intelligence was frowned upon. I am not exaggerating either. My grandmother told my mother, "Don't let those boys grow up to be too intelligent…

I think there's a middle ground between your parents and his.

I don't doubt that there is a middle ground. I was simply commenting on the parent post. I was on the opposite side of the spectrum as this kid. I had the ability but not the opportunity. It is a cause of much of my bitterness. It is largely the reason why I don't speak to my mother much.

For those who may think that such bitterness is unwarranted or inappropriate for such a situation, I accept that I am bitter about it and I relish in the fact that I am no longer in such a situation.

Re: 10-Year-Old Scholar Takes California College By Storm

#28

Post by viergroupie »

silencio wrote: post #17

Oh jeez, I know this kid. I have the same piano teacher as he does, and I felt so sorry for him. His lessons were often after mine. Personally, I think his parents (his dad in particular) ARE pushing him way too much.

Anything specific?

Re: 10-Year-Old Scholar Takes California College By Storm

#29

Post by silencio »

viergroupie wrote: post #28
silencio wrote: post #17

Oh jeez, I know this kid. I have the same piano teacher as he does, and I felt so sorry for him. His lessons were often after mine. Personally, I think his parents (his dad in particular) ARE pushing him way too much.

Anything specific?

While I think he's a really nice and smart kid (basically, like all of my friends from all those stupid programs), I don't think he's had much experience outside practicing/studying/fine tuning all these things he does at school and at his extracurricular activities.

And really, as much as that article says his parents didn't want to push him, I get the impression that they do, and maybe to extremes...at the least, they imply so.

I want him to be a kid! I've had MANY friends go this route at various ages (but all still earlier than usual), and some of them regret slaving away at classwork only to end up like everyone else except a couple years faster..which ends up meaning almost nothing most of the time. It really depends on the person..but almost all of them follow the same pattern. Study, study, study, do lots of extracurriculars..get into college, go to grad school a bit early, and end up in the same place as half their intellectual peers. Do employers care? Not really. Do schools care? Maybe for the teeny bit of publicity, but not really. In fact, if you do skip that much that early you probably end up running into issues with school administration.

Honestly, is there something bad about taking ones time? I used to take classes at the CC when I was 11-12ish, and I felt insanely out of place in most of them because everyone was several years older than me and while it was easy to get acquainted with others (it can be an interesting introduction), it's just not the same. My parents liked the idea but they would babysit me the whole way through (well, not the classwork) because they weren't comfortable with me beling alone on campus.

Essentially, the behavior of any preteen just won't be the same as anybody over 18.

Re: 10-Year-Old Scholar Takes California College By Storm

#30

Post by silencio »

gruseom wrote: post #21

I agree with the commenters who point to the parents. This kind of prodigy is usually the product of an ambitious parent trying to vicariously superachieve. I think that explains why so few go on to great (or even comparable) achievement in later life. It's because they weren't living out their own identity but something that was assigned to them. Sooner or later this is bound to be rejected or otherwise collapse. Th…

I don't know. The thing is, I got into the highly gifted magnet program at lausd (the group for kids with IQs>=145) thanks to my parents. But my parents were completely oblivious as to what all of that nonsense from the school principal was and just signed all the papers without really reading anything. They actually thought I caused some trouble at school when they got a call from my teacher who wanted to talk about me..except it was cause I was in the 99th percentile in everything and finished classwork in 5 minutes what would take everyone else an hour (and played games on the Macs we had in class :D).

So I mean, this stuff happens with or without parents. I think it's cause I really enjoyed all these things..my parents sat me down with the Sunday comics to get me to read when I was a baby not because they wanted me to be some genius, but because apparently it looked like I had an interest in the colorful stuff on the paper. (On a sidenote, some parents think they can make their kids into "genius"es and their kids overwork themselves to get into these programs to get their approval and man it ends up being a waste of time!)

I believe Moshe is a very cute kid who has brains. I think that his parents realized that early on and got him to do all these things. My ultimate problem with this situation is that he's too young and inexperienced in every other way..he's only known that life he has now and nothing else, and there's probably no way in hell his parents will backtrack and just leave him alone (probably blame it on him eventually reaching puberty? who knows). I don't know if he'll end up regretting it, or if he'll end up thanking his parents for what they've done. But I think it's a damn shame regardless.

And you do have a really valid point that not a lot of people are realizing. I can count a LOT of people my age and older that I know were just as gifted as this kid..but what did they end up doing? Um, nothing that someone will remember 10 years later, usually. That doesn't mean they're not gifted..they're pretty intelligent. But it's not something that really stands out..it's usually what they want to do and they just do it.

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